And + another one here....

I would love to join you James, but I already did it..... Now I rarely have a spare minute to heave a sigh..... I am expanding again - into the basement as well as the garage. If I double again - I will have to move out of the house. Sure don't miss the office POLITICS though.

Welcome to the best forum around - from someone in your neck of the woods.

The helix function works nicely for this, but you have to know what your circle size is - you cannot just "select" the arc to helix mill.

Absolutely correct, BernieT. The point MUST be chained FIRST. It will not work if the point is second. BUT - "use entry point" is not an option under the "ramp" type of contour. I typically set up my lead-in / lead-out to start in the center of the circle for ramp type toolpaths.

Pics would be great!! I was hoping to attend since I am looking for a very compact chip briquetting system. WESTEC has always been a good place to spot new ideas and better ways of doing things....

I wish I was joining you! It just isn't possible this year. Have a GREAT time guys!!!

Absolutely, James. To measure pitch error you have to measure exact points along an axis of travel - taking the measurements moving IN ONE DIRECTION ONLY. Typically you use a measuring gage bar laid on the table along the axis of travel and use a 10ths (or better) indicating dial test gage in the spindle. NOTE that you ALWAYS approach the measurement point moving in ONE DIRECTION only. These measurements are taken at several point along the axis of travel. Only the PITCH ERROR in the manufacturing of the lead of the ballscrew (or induced pitch errors due to wear) are measured by this technique (it does NOT measure backlash). Pitch error typically does not change much for the SAME ballscrew (except in cases of extreme wear). However, If you replace the ballscrew - whole new game. For backlash, you approach the measurement point from one direction, advance until you read "0" on your tenths indicator, take the reading (should be "0"), retract the spindle, continue in the same direction, stop and reverse back to the measurement point and extend the spindle back down to take the second reading (the 10ths indicator will probably NOT read "0"). The difference between the 1st reading and 2nd reading is your backlash. You typically perform this measurement at both ends and the middle of the ballscrew travel. A worn ballscrew, worn ballscrew carriage, worn end bearings, worn couplings will all contribute to backlash. Some backlash MUST be present for the ballscrew to move - usually a 10th or less. This is the parameter that typically moves over time on a machine. It will definitely change if you change ballscrews, ballnuts, preload bearings, couplings, etc.. If you are having problems in this area, it will typically show up as "flat spots" at the four quadrants of a circle.

I concur James. It is too easy to level the machine and think that you are good to go. Leveling it front-to-back and side-to-side is definitely NOT the place to stop. It is usually just the first of many steps to get it really "flat" and square. The "old-fashioned" way was to check level on the machine in a variety of locations and positions to ensure that it was "level" or flat throughout the X-Y travel. Laser checking is soooo much easier... and you can do volumetric compensating (if your machine control allows for it). However, between full-service calls, it is a quick and dirty way to determine if your machine is "moving". Agreed, that position tolerance is intolerable... It should be less than .0002 on even a commodity machine. My linear guide Fadal is still less than .00012 after 4 years of use (2 shifts - 7 days). My backlash is starting to creep up a bit, but I check the pitch error and backlash comps about once every 6 months or so with a full checkup every year to year and a half. Some possible contibutors to position tolerance problems would be: - Lubrication issues (blocked feed lines or metering valve) contributing to stiction - Loose guideways - Loose or too tight slides - Worn or loose motor/ballscrew coupling - Bad measuring equipment or measuring technique

I will take a minor exception to the "level" of a machine.... It is perfectly true that to an extent, it does not matter if the machine is "level" with respect to local gravity. However, it is typically the easiest way to determine if you are introducing a "twist", "hump", or "sag" in a bed. Ideally, the machine would "float" with respect to the world - establishing its own "level". Unfortunately I have seen all too many machines that are not properly leveled and are consequently non-planar for X or Y. The biggest offenders usually occur when the machine is locked down (bolted down).....

Note that this is for a vertical mill. To tram a head is to move it (with shims or jacking screws - depending on the machine) so that the Z-axis (and spindle) is perpendicular to the X-Y plane of the machine (usually the table). Sometimes the table will also require shimming to ensure that the table surface stays "flat" throughout the X-Y plane. You should always check the X-Y table first - after leveling the whole machine. Fadal publishes their procedures for performing an axis "survey" (pitch compensation). Basically you are checking and compensating for various degrees of error at several points along the axis ballscrew. For the manual method, you use a gage block setup that spaces several gage surfaces along a length (usually at whole inch increments - like 3.00000 inches or 4.00000 inch intervals). The gage setup is a fairly pricey piece, but it would be possible to "build" a setup using standard gage blocks. You then take measurements along the gage set to see if you get an actual 3.0000 inches travel for a 3.00000 inch space (always traveling in the same direction). You then enter the "deviations" as your pitch comp along the axis ballscrew. THEN you have to do backlash......

quote: Online post class?... ...Isn't that what were doing? Yep, and Class is in session 24-7. [big Grin] [Razz] Hmmmm.. YEP - sounds like this forum alright!! As for me it was: Trial, error, trial, error, trial, partial sucess, trial, error, ask question, get answer, knock head on wall (cuz I already knew the answer), trial, error, trial, error, ask different question, get answer, trial, success... It works. LEAVE IT ALONE..... Oh fud ge - just found a new bug..... Get MPMASTER_FADAL.PST - ohhhhh, NICE!!!!

quote: so 'peck' in your post may be 'brew coffee' in mine Is that customizable for KONA????

Good question... I have been doing it by hand myself and it is a pain.....

Hello Craig! You want me to give your younger bro a swift kick in the pants when I see him at work? Just to let him know you are still the eldest, of course?

It would be helpful to know what the basis of the post that you are using is..... However, for spaces between codes you are looking for a line like: spaces : 1 #No. of spaces to add between fields Or a variables like: sav_spc and spaces Your reseller should be able to fix you up with a post that is very close to your needs and can also get you the definitive CDROM on post editing.

The MPMaster_Fadal post is great. I have modified it for my own preferences, but "out of the box" it is the best I have seen. As has been mentioned, you should be able to get it through your reseller. I always found the MPFadal post to be less than satisfactory (particularly for rotary) - even after tweaking on it a lot.

Have you looked at Section 15 of the Fadal User Manual?? If you don't have a hard copy of that manual - it can be found here: http://www.fadal.com/index.php?id=788

Actually my spouse surprised the heck out of me by asking if she could work in the shop! She is very detail oriented and prefers to follow a "cook-book" approach. She is becoming a good operator. What really surprised me the other day was her comment "you know... What we REALLY need is another machine or two...". I am glad I married her almost 28 years ago - I couldn't have gotten this far without her!!!!

I hear you James! The corporate scene just keeps getting uglier. I have been with the company I work for for 13+ years. I thought for sure that I was a goner this past fall when corporate suits came in and cleared out all of the senior management. I was the ONLY one left in my entire department - didn't even have anyone to sign my timesheet. I was given two days to find a "home" on the contract..... One of my best customers just sat me down for a chat and let me know that he would gleefully load me up if I could figure out how to increase my throughput. He indicated that I was only getting 5-10% of the work he outsources (and I thought I was getting a pretty good chunk of it!). Seemed like a pretty strong HINT to me.....particularly since I am having to turn a lot of work away. Right now, the amount of work I am getting (after expenses) is about 2/3 of my salary for the "day" job. Not good enough to launch with 2 kids in college and one who will be there in two years. I am therefore looking into acquiring one or two smaller VMC's to go with my Fadal 3016L. I really want to fit two of them in about 14' x 7' of the garage. If I were to rearrange my 3016L in the garage, I could get it down to about 1/3 of the total space (it now occupies about 1/2 - with a work bench in front of it). I have been carefully snooping around my area and have noted that about 3/5 of the shops that were in business 3 years ago are gone. The remaining shops, with a couple of exceptions, are just busting at the seams and can't handle any more work. However, I also don't want to over-extend myself either. It REALLY bites when the beginning of the month rolls around and there isn't enough money in the bank account to make a machine tool payment (like a couple years back!!!!). Sorry about the hijack..... But I would DIE without the internet for my home business. I just do NOT understand how these companies can contemplate cutting off access. I depend on it at work for a lot of research about parts and systems. Just finished a $15 million proposal and it would have been impossible without an internet connection to do the needed research in identifying potential vendors.

Looks like I will no longer be able to log on at my day job into Emastercam as MetalMarvels. I might still be able to - but only if I create a whole new registration for my "daytime" persona. They are on a "witch hunt" right now and my using my personal company logon to access from my day job will be a red flag. Bear in mind that I DO use Mastercam at my day job - but that won't matter in the least when they shout "conflict of interest". Never mind that I have declared my home business and always let them know when I am doing business with a company that they do business with. Never mind that I have been very, very careful never to engage in anything related to my own business while working on their dime. The BS level is getting impossible these days. They have gotten the benefit of "fixes" that I have worked out at home for my own business. Particularly in the area of tweaked posts - I worked it out and did the necessary learning on my own time (admittedly for MY business) and they DID see benefits. However, I know that the corporate folks wouldnt hesitate to pink tag me for "abuse of internet". I think the time has come to begin careful expansion of my own shop and tell them to xxxx off......

Don't forget that you CAN'T use WEAR comp if you choose to use the Highfeed option - it will do wierd things to you (you need to use computer comp).

Just an FYI with a Fadal 3016 (1999 to 2003 vintage). If you are going to try pushing the envelope on a 3016 you will need to selectively turn up the servo gain with an M92 (Intermediate) in order to reduce overshoot. However, you should not leave it there and should return the gain to "normal" with an M90 (default) or an M91 (normal). Using an M93 (high) is typically reserved for rigid tapping. If you leave the gain at "intermediate" it will beat up the axis - you will hear it "bang" as the lead screws change direction. Having said that, if you set up your tool paths so that there are no 90-degree changes in direction, the higher gain setting will not hurt anything. Sweeping moves are better for the Fadal. If your Fadal 3016 is anything like mine, the fastest you will be able to program for a G1 type move will be about 180 IPM (purportedly 200 IPM - but I have never been able to actually get it going that quick) - the G0 rapids will be about 400-500 IPM.

+1 to Phil on the thin-wall parts - been there done that....I usually try to run my tap cycles before I hog out the middles of my boxes now.

I went through my local Shop Tools dealer - I could have had the tools overnite, but settled for shipping via ground since I wasn't in any hurry. The one time I ran out of inserts, I had them the next day. A word of caution - ONLY AB tools has these inserts to the best of my knowledge. They are a specially ground insert apparently designed specifically to rip through aluminum like nobodies business. On the plus side, they have been in business for quite awhile (28 years I think). I always have gone through my local supplier, but I think that you can order direct. I also have one of their 2-1/2 inch shell shear-hogs. Great tool for my low-powered mill and uses the same inserts.