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Corey Hampshire

New to us Mill Turn, Looking for Suggestions on Software

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Hello all. Our owner purchased a new to us Mill Turn. Mori Seiki 2500S. It has X,Z,C,Y and B axis. Also has a sub spindle and programmable steady rest. I am looking forward to the new challenge and I am sure that I will be posting on here more with questions once I get to jump in with both feet.

Here is what we have currently for machines and Mastercam. We have several HMC and VMC. Several VMC have 4th axis rotary tables. We have one other mill turn that is 4 axis with live tooling that we use. We also have a bunch of 2 axis lathes. 

Mastercam, we have 3 seats. All three seats are the same, Mill, Multi Axis Mill, and Lathe. We use Machine sim inside Mastercam for verifing the 4 axis VMC's with no major issues. We don't do much in the the 4 axis mill turn, and have never really bothered with Machine sim for that machine.

Going forward, I am unsure how to proceed. I know that Mastercam has Mill Turn as an add on. I have watched some videos and gotten the gist of what is going on and why it would be beneficial. I have a few questions. Is the code and simulation in Mill Turn tied to the posted code? Is what I am going to see in Mastercam going to be the same as what I see on the Machine?

Would I be better off talking to Nc Simul or Vericut and getting a seat of that? I really don't want to crunch this machine up and understand the value of Machine Simulation that is accurate. Will I end up needing both Mill Turn for Mastercam and also a seat of Vericut / Nc Simul?

 

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MillTurn environment does NOT replace Vericut and or NcSimul, it does come close, but It's not  NC verification for sure.

In my opinion you need both. Obviously the $$ is always an issue, but for easy of programming this machine I'd start with environment and get the vericut/ncsimul soon after

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I would say NC Simul over Vericut if you want a Post Processor integrated with your simulation. If you're satisfied with your MC post, then Vericut will do very nicely and give you a bigger user base to draw from.

JM2CFWIW

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Thanks for the feedback guys. I have emails out to both NC Simul and Vericut. I got in touch with my reseller and unfortunately, Mastercam doesn't support my machine for Mill Turn at this time. Looks like we will have to go with one of the other two companies. 

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39 minutes ago, Corey Hampshire said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have emails out to both NC Simul and Vericut. I got in touch with my reseller and unfortunately, Mastercam doesn't support my machine for Mill Turn at this time. Looks like we will have to go with one of the other two companies. 

I program a bunch of different Mill/Turn machines in Mastercam not using the MT environment and use CAV with no issues. I even program some and customers run them without CAV.

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30 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

I program a bunch of different Mill/Turn machines in Mastercam not using the MT environment and use CAV with no issues. I even program some and customers run them without CAV.

Please excuse my ignorance, what is CAV? Computer Aided Verify? That is my million dollar guess 😂. What do you prefer to use, and how do you know things are good without some sort of collision checking?

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Yes CAV is Computer Aided Verification.

Both listed are good choices and really going to comes down to what you want. 

Without CAV trail and error and tons of caution. Might take 5-10 times longer to prove out a program on a machine without CAV. Really going to come down to how comfortable the programmer gets with the machine. All they do every day in and day out they are better than me since I jump around between so many different machines. You get a feel for what works and what doesn't and where to be safe and where you can push it. CAV gives you that extra level of visibility without having to go to the machine and risk it. Even a program run through CAV I always tell people be safe never trust it till it have been ran through at least once. I get we need to get it done in a hurry, but one mistake or issue and it could turn into a major problem. No harm in being safe and cautious.

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Well, at least I wasn't off on my million dollar guess!

What are the main differences between Vericut and NC Simul? I am going to try and push for a seat of something, and unfortunately, it may come down to price. I will be the guy programming it, but I doubt it will be my sole focus. Most days it is vertical mills (4 axis) and sometimes the line of parts waiting for me to program can be quite long. I would prefer something that I can program as needed and trust the software to catch 98% of the issues. I know nothing is fool proof, and if it is, we just find a better fool to test it out. That said, I agree....sometimes slow and steady wins the race after all.

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Hi Fellas,

Corey did you get any feedback on your last questions on this thread?  My whole career I've run my own programs and I've never figured I'd need CAV, but it is a new world for me as I'm also looking to learn y-axis lathes.  Any advice you have(pricing, ease of use) would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

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Bo,

I reached out to both Nc Simul and Vericut. Vericut came to the shop last Friday and gave us a demo. It's a modular design, similar to Mastercam. Buy what you need and can expand later. Cost depends on what options and how many machines you need it for. I am waiting to get an official quote from them.

Vericut seems to have lots of nice features and options that would be handy to have. I was impressed with it.

NC Simul called me, I gave them the info they wanted and I have yet to see a quote. It is what it is, I know people get busy and Covid is a monkey wrench in everything. I honestly couldn't tell you much more about NC Simul than that.

In the mean time I am making some chips and playing with the machine and Mastercam. One hand on Feed hold and just being careful. It can be done, but things can get hairy in short time.

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On 3/17/2021 at 2:51 AM, Corey Hampshire said:

Bo,

I reached out to both Nc Simul and Vericut. Vericut came to the shop last Friday and gave us a demo. It's a modular design, similar to Mastercam. Buy what you need and can expand later. Cost depends on what options and how many machines you need it for. I am waiting to get an official quote from them.

Vericut seems to have lots of nice features and options that would be handy to have. I was impressed with it.

NC Simul called me, I gave them the info they wanted and I have yet to see a quote. It is what it is, I know people get busy and Covid is a monkey wrench in everything. I honestly couldn't tell you much more about NC Simul than that.

In the mean time I am making some chips and playing with the machine and Mastercam. One hand on Feed hold and just being careful. It can be done, but things can get hairy in short time.

The support from CGTech is second to none. I've worked with a lot of different software companies, and I would rate CGTech right up there with the best in terms of support.

What model Mori Seiki? Being a 2500 is a NTX?

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Hi Mick,

It is not a NTX. Just a plain old 2500S. 

I am trying to get management to pull the trigger on Vericut, but so far it has fallen on deaf ears. All they see is the price tag and don't understand why we need it. I enjoyed their demo, and see some real value in the software. It could even help us with other situations in the shop. It's frustrating, but they are the ones with the check book. Such is life.

You are the second person who has raved about CGTech's support, so the must be doing something right.

I will keep pushing and see how far I get. The worst thing they can say is No, and thats currently what they are saying, so I really can't be any worse off 😁

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Hey All,

I'm also looking at verification software and posts. I'm looking into getting some some INDEX machines (ABC, G200, G250) to be programmed with Mastercam. I was also told that a machine environment is not available for my machines from our reseller. Has anyone heard of Eureka from Roboris?? https://www.roboris.it/en/home-01/

Our reseller recommended them as an alternative to Vericut and NC Simul. They claim to specialize in complex turning.

 

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