Custom Setup Sheets vs. Mastercam ones

[Newbeeee™]

4 minutes ago, Bill Craven said:

Newbeeee,

I think that one of the things that really hurts Active reports is how difficult it is to learn to modify the templates to get the output that you want.  We are supposed to be programming parts.  ("Why isn't that spindle running?")

Sometimes, I would spend as much time documenting a project as programming.  The information was there, we just had to get it out of the Mastercam file.

I remember when Dave Thompson was with IHS, he was my mentor for Post Processor generated setup sheets.  Way before AR.

I spent my own time learning AR.  I primarliy do turnkey projects now and wanted to have some polished looking results that I could generate with one click of the mouse.  I have gotten close to what I want, but 2023 broke it for me.  

Jim Varco's product is very good and it is pretty easy to make many modifications.

Gunther's X+ is excellent and I use it for quick double checks of settings.  (Did I remember to turn the coolant on for all operations?)  15 seconds later, I have my answer.  I am sure I could do more with it, but I have invested time and energy in AR.

There have been whispered rumors swirling around in the mist for years that CNC was going to implement a new Setup sheet report writer.  

 

X+ Yes, I (we/company) used it as a set sheet for prototype work or parts that probably wouldn't repeat. Easy.

And used it every time for exactly as you say - planes set okay, coolant on, THD okay etc.

Don't get me wrong, I had it outputting exactly what I wanted (in reality it was effectively a tool list) - my reseller had Ruth @CNC work on it for me when we initially struggled. Saving as pdf and then opening into Nitro, it allowed amendments, adding photographs of the part set-up etc which in the end worked okayish.

Regarding a new report writer....it would be far easier to buy Gunthers X+ or Jim's Varco reports, and package it with the product. At least people know it. History has shown, that "implementing new" can be a "bit of a PITA"....(as AR, initial View Sheets, and Tool manager as a few examples, show).....

 

[So not a Guru]

56 minutes ago, Bill Craven said:

There have been whispered rumors swirling around in the mist for years that CNC was going to implement a new Setup sheet report writer.  

The new IHS IKE posts have a built in setup sheet. I started building a post for our Mazak VCN700, but a squirrel distracted me. I need to take another stab at it.

[Bill Craven]

49 minutes ago, So not a Guru said:

but a squirrel distracted me

LOL.   "what's in that hole?  Is it a rabbit tail? I better go and investigate"

 

I played a tiny bit with the new IKE post, but that same squirrel...

[Bill Craven]

1 hour ago, Newbeeee™ said:

"implementing new" can be a "bit of a PITA"....(as AR, initial View Sheets, and Tool manager as a few examples, show)....

Learning curves can eat up a lot of profit...    What is the "Tool Manager"?   

[nperry]

12 hours ago, Jobnt said:

I hope so. The current method is, as my signature states, the Joe Biden of computer Apps. 

What do you mean by that?

"Powerful but really, really dumb" is my best guess.

[sharles]

Hey guys,

thanks for all the replies and input. As I've tried to remember why we abandoned our attempts at using AR 4 years ago, the biggest problem is, say, when we output a drill, ream,tap, bore toolpath, it may have 20 or more tools (thus 20 mastercam operations in it). We didn't want 20 different entries in our report. We simply want one that gives the name of the toolpath the operators will run, how long mastercam thinks it will take, and a very generic description "drills all mounting holes", not 5 pages listing every tool in that one toolpath. That's what the tool build sheet is for, NOT the toolpath sheets IMO.

I've never looked into Gunther's X+, so I'm not sure what it does from the things some of you are saying about it...

Thanks again!

[nperry]

9 minutes ago, sharles said:

Hey guys,

thanks for all the replies and input. As I've tried to remember why we abandoned our attempts at using AR 4 years ago, the biggest problem is, say, when we output a drill, ream,tap, bore toolpath, it may have 20 or more tools. We didn't want 20 different entries in our report. We simply want one that gives the name of the toolpath the operators will run, how long mastercam thinks it will take, and a very generic description "drills all mounting holes", not 5 pages listing every tool in that one toolpath. That's what the tool build sheet is for, NOT the toolpath sheets IMO.

I've never looked into Gunther's X+, so I'm not sure what it does from the things some of you are saying about it...

Thanks again!

X+ is/can be a very bare bones setup sheet. Just the pertinent information, easy to read, very succinct. After Gunther started charging I built one for our shop that was modeled off of what we used on X+ (not because X+ isn't worth it, more because I had time and was up for a different kind of task). It could be you're looking for something akin to this based on what you're saying here.

 

[sharles]

11 minutes ago, nperry said:

X+ is/can be a very bare bones setup sheet. Just the pertinent information, easy to read, very succinct. After Gunther started charging I built one for our shop that was modeled off of what we used on X+ (not because X+ isn't worth it, more because I had time and was up for a different kind of task). It could be you're looking for something akin to this based on what you're saying here.

 

 

So, maybe I need to contact Gunther and see if he can approximately replicate what I have in our Excel sheet??? Does it load right into Mastercam like our Varco reports does so that it will automatically grab as much information as possible, but still allow us to make generic comments like I showed in our Excel sheets?

[nperry]

8 minutes ago, sharles said:

So, maybe I need to contact Gunther and see if he can approximately replicate what I have in our Excel sheet??? Does it load right into Mastercam like our Varco reports does so that it will automatically grab as much information as possible, but still allow us to make generic comments like I showed in our Excel sheets?

Someone with more experience than me in X+ should probably chime in, but from what I remember it loads right into Mastercam and I feel like it also loaded specific comments. I hired into my current shop right at the tail end of X+ being free...I can't remember all the specifics about its functionality.

[Jobnt]

2 hours ago, nperry said:

"Powerful but really, really dumb" is my best guess.

Really, REALLY dumb, yes.

But IMNSHO, AR was a mistake and should never have been considered for the job at hand. That or someone had a lot of clout (i.e. a laptop with some weird stuff on it) with CNC Software and convinced them the worthless old relic was somehow a good idea to shove down everyone's throat. 

(Any references to other people, places or things is purely coincidental and unintended.)

[SuperHoneyBadger]

14 hours ago, So not a Guru said:

The new IHS IKE posts have a built in setup sheet.

 

14 hours ago, Bill Craven said:

I played a tiny bit with the new IKE post, but that same squirrel...

This is what I have so far from IKE. Having a hard time with the tool depth on these sheets as the Z Depth variables (pcomm_max_min_file, pcomm_max_min_tool and pcomm_max_min_op) seem to only output the depth for the lastOP the tool is used for, not the deepest point versus Z0. Working on it on the side of regular duties.

I will say, the post itself pumps out good code (but still needs mods for our subs/macros etc), and has no issues with rotations on our horizonal and our rotary table'd 3 axis. I use it for axis substitution on the rotary when I need it.

[Jobnt]

12 minutes ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

seem to only output the depth for the lastOP the tool is used for, not the deepest point versus Z0.

The Gibbscam Reporter has the same issue. It posts straight to Excel so I captured each Operation's depth on a separate sheet then did a v-lookup to pull the deepest one for that tool and used that in the setup sheet. Might be able to do something like that with AR??

[SuperHoneyBadger]

8 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

Might be able to do something like that with AR??

In all honesty, I have been in full avoidance mode when it comes to AR. I'm hoping that my IKE tinkering will bear fruit, and I'll be sure to let everyone know if it does. Especially if it is a more global kind of problem to solve.

[Jobnt]

3 minutes ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

In all honesty, I have been in full avoidance mode when it comes to AR. 

#MeToo

It's a really dumb app that doesn't even let you control the window state/position when it opens. It always opens full screen and on my 3 foot wide monitor it's completely useless.

[neurosis]

38 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

But IMNSHO, AR was a mistake and should never have been considered for the job at hand. That or someone had a lot of clout (i.e. a laptop with some weird stuff on it) with CNC Software and convinced them the worthless old relic was somehow a good idea to shove down everyone's throat. 

 

I actually don't mind it. Does it do everything that I'd like it to, no, it's definitely not perfect. But it's free and you can design a pretty nice setup sheet with it if you spend some time learning how to use it.  I've never reached out to anyone but I would guess that you could pay to have one made that looks pretty professional? 

3 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

t always opens full screen

Yes, that's very annoying,

[Newbeeee™]

42 minutes ago, neurosis said:

 

I actually don't mind it. Does it do everything that I'd like it to, no, it's definitely not perfect. But it's free and you can design a pretty nice setup sheet with it if you spend some time learning how to use it.  I've never reached out to anyone but I would guess that you could pay to have one made that looks pretty professional? 

Yes, that's very annoying,

LoL @ "but it's free"....I could say I bought it for 20k and got mastercam thrown in

For auld time sake, IMHO the most important thing for a 'grammer to do, is convey the minimum required information to the shop floor, to swiftly and successfully make the part. Obviously, both concise and accurate information. The reason why I say minimum, is because some of these set-sheets are data creators - and IME, people's eyes glaze over - they don't bother to read it. Less is best.

And it really should be (as close as possible) one-click.

 

3 hours ago, sharles said:

So, maybe I need to contact Gunther and see if he can approximately replicate what I have in our Excel sheet??? Does it load right into Mastercam like our Varco reports does so that it will automatically grab as much information as possible, but still allow us to make generic comments like I showed in our Excel sheets?

If you are already running Varco - I would first email Jim and see if there's anything he can do.

The problem with too many different softwares, can be upkeep....

Ref x+, yes. it loads to a folder and you have an icon on the top bar.

[neurosis]

3 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

And it really should be (as close as possible) one-click.

I don't know what's out there anymore having been stuck on MC for the last 15 years.    How many CAM systems have a 1 click easy setup sheet button that doesn't require paying for or learning how to tailor it to your liking? 

 

TS has a pretty nice setup sheet but required a LOT of work to get it to look how you wanted. Even then, it wasn't one click. You still had some work to do.

[Newbeeee™]

16 minutes ago, neurosis said:

I don't know what's out there anymore having been stuck on MC for the last 15 years.    How many CAM systems have a 1 click easy setup sheet button that doesn't require paying for or learning how to tailor it to your liking? 

 

TS has a pretty nice setup sheet but required a LOT of work to get it to look how you wanted. Even then, it wasn't one click. You still had some work to do.

Dunno. But it's been in mcam since 2009....

And if it was "one click", that would be a great selling point over any other system that wasn't?

 

[Bill Craven]

39 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

For auld time sake, IMHO the most important thing for a 'grammer to do, is convey the minimum required information to the shop floor, to swiftly and successfully make the part. Obviously, both concise and accurate information. The reason why I say minimum, is because some of these set-sheets are data creators - and IME, people's eyes glaze over - they don't bother to read it. Less is best.

And it really should be (as close as possible) one-click.

I totally agree with this.  I hate to say it but there are a lot of people out there that don't take the time to CAREFULLY read setup sheets or their reading comprehension skills are very poor.  

[SuperHoneyBadger]

10 minutes ago, Bill Craven said:

I totally agree with this.  I hate to say it but there are a lot of people out there that don't take the time to CAREFULLY read setup sheets or their reading comprehension skills are very poor. 

Yep. That's absolutely the reasoning behind our simple sheets.

Get the Ø right, get the length right, get the tool number right. That's all I ask of you, Mr. Operator.

[Newbeeee™]

5 minutes ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

Yep. That's absolutely the reasoning behind our simple sheets.

Get the Ø right, get the length right, get the tool number right. That's all I ask of you, Mr. Operator.

Waddabout Datums?

 

[Jobnt]

37 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Waddabout Datums?

 

He covered that first...

43 minutes ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

Get the Ø right... That's all I ask of you, Mr. Operator.

 

[Newbeeee™]

26 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

He covered that first...

 

Where's the setup sheet? I thought he was referring to tool dia, tool length, and tool number  

[Jobnt]

30 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Where's the setup sheet? I thought he was referring to tool dia, tool length, and tool number  

Oh. Hahahaha. I see now. That's a dia, symbol, not zero (as in datum).

I'll sit down and shut up now. At least on this topic.

[Newbeeee™]

30 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

Oh. Hahahaha. I see now. That's a dia, symbol, not zero (as in datum).

I'll sit down and shut up now. At least on this topic.

IDK....You maybe right....we need a setup sheet which also details what machine it's going on