Toolholder Advice

[Charlie Pierson]

I need to purchase some new holders for endmills.

Shrink-fit is not an option as of yet.

I'm looking at Techniks Slim-Fit system w/ the collets. The colletts remind me of the Nikken Mini-Mini system of which I'm really impressed.

 

Does anyone out there use the Techniks Slim-Fit system ?? How do they compare to your standard Emill Holder ?? , to a ER collet system ??.

 

Machine : 10k rpm Kitamura Mycenter 3xi

Fanuc 16Mi control

I need to rip some aluminum 1/4 thick, profiling 1/4" radial x 1/4" axial w/ 3/8 emill fast as possible w/ best finish possible. Thousands of parts.

 

Ditto w/ 5/8 emill

 

Niagra A345 series emills - 45' helix 3flt micrograin carbide, TICN coated, stubby DOC

 

any opinions ???

 

thanx in advance

cp

[Psychomill]

How about a mill chuck?

 

or Corogrip from Sandvik?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

3 Lock holders from Nikken are my favorite. But you have to thave the BIG Plus Spindle to take advantage. Nikken Milling Chucks are sweet though.

 

JM2C

[DaveR]

Where does one buy those milling chucks?

 

I've been looking for something like that to replace my cheepo- china ER collet holders.

[?Mark]

quote:

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Where does one buy those milling chucks?

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Anyone that sells tools carries at least one line of holders, be it command, lyndex-nikken, schunk...

Be aware, good milling chucks have double+ the price of er holders.

 

Regards, Mark

[?Mark]

Oh, anyone tried hydraulic holders from schunk?

Look great, but wonder about their gripping power?

They say run-out is less then .0012" and clamping force is 23000 lbs. or more.

Could use a few on our cat 50 mori, but your feedback would be greatly appreciated before I make a decision.

Kind regards, Mark

[MACHINEMASTERG]

we have command collet holders and tecknics and i like the tecknics better we also bought there cheapo tool presetter (1500)$$$ thats cheap for a tool presetter and its great !!!!ill never touch tools off the top of apart or fixture again !!!

[Harryman]

Why aren't shrinkers an option?

 

From the sound of your application you won't need to change tools very often. You can do it with a MAPP torch. (I guess I wouldn't want a total moron doing it, but I can handle it.) Just shine it up with Scotchbite and watch the colors to control temp. Shrinkers are cheaper than hydraulics by far if you don't pop for a fancy heater.

 

The improved coolant access without a fat collet nut in the way is another huge plus.

[Psychomill]

quote:

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They say run-out is less then .0012" .....

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I'd say if the runout was at .0012, I'd take them from the shipping dock and straight into the dumpster!

 

[Shawn Wentzel- Wenteq Inc]

Does it hurt the holder heating it with the torch over the special factory built heater?

[robk]

quote:

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I'd say if the runout was at .0012, I'd take them from the shipping dock and straight into the dumpster!

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+1...

Charlie, any "brand" name holder should work for you. Most standard holders are good for 12K, so you're safe with your 10K spindle. I have plenty of ER collet holders in here and they work just fine.

[Charlie Pierson]

I have to rule out shrink fit tooling due to logistics.

We are located in a multiple building factory and at least 2 or 3 departments are producing these parts at any one time.

One of the depts has 7 HMCs and 5 VMCs. The next dept is located about 1/4 mile away and 3 floors up w/ 6 VMCs.

The third is locates 4 floors down from the second w/ 3 VMCs.

I would need at least 2 shrinking machines to efficiently handle tool replacements.

Milling Chucks seem kinda fat at the nose and kinda long in projection from gage line.

 

The Techniks Slim-Fit system has the shallow taper collets along w/ an advertised .0002 Max TIR @ 4xD,

the same as the Nikken Mini-Mini which I am using for a 1/8 Emill.

Right now I'm using Emill Holders and ER collets which work ok but I think I can do better w/ better tooling.

I am hoping that the design similarities between the Nikken Mini-Mini ( .125-.3125d) and

the Techniks Slim-Fit (.125-.75d) will confer the same benefits to the larger emills.

Parts are run on 2 pallet VMCs, 4 parts 1st op -->4 parts 2nd op per pallet and the tolerances are +/- .001.

Given the thousands of tools we need to produce each year, I'm pretty sure that we can amortise the tooling costs

quickly.

 

Thanx for the help,

cp

 

ps. We are considering purchasing a 20k rpm machine and cellularizing the entire tool.

If that happens , I'll look into Heat Shrink tooling again.

[Scott Sizemore]

We use Schunk hydraulic holders here they are much better than precision collets and really good for finishing since they tend to absorb vibration. I would not suggest them for heavy roughing though.

[betts]

Mark-

I've used the Schunk hydraulic and they are great! That must be typo about the .0012 runout as they are like .00012 maybe? We had no problems with holding power, but used them on a graphite machine.

 

Hey Greg-

 

What do you like better about the Techniks over the Command? I need to replace some Command and have been looking at the Thechniks instead of buying more Command.

[?Mark]

quote:

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I'd say if the runout was at .0012, I'd take them from the shipping dock and straight into the dumpster!

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Lol.

It was a typo

 

The run-out is .00012" max

Thanks Scott and Betts.

What do you consider heavy roughing, Scott?

My intention was to use it for carbide Varimils up to 3/4 or 7/8 dia.

I use a lot of 1.250" rougher up to 6" long for some jobs, but wouldn't even think of holding those in hydraulic chuck

 

Kind regards, Mark

[Scott Sizemore]

I consider heavy roughing to be taking a 1" corn cob rougher 3/4 deep 1/2 step over. The hydrauilc really shines for long lenght to dia. ratios when high speed finishing. But for normal cutting conditions they are the most effective holder I have ever used, they are fast to load and pretty much matience free, with good gripping power.

[?Mark]

"pretty much matience free"

You don't need to send it out for maintenance, do you?

Also does the tool need to be inserted thru the whole lenght of a collet? What is the minimun isertion lenght?

 

Mark

[Scott Sizemore]

quote:

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You don't need to send it out for maintenance, do you?

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No, but you do need to make sure you keep them (and the dia. reducing sleeves) clean or the sides will get scratced by the fine chips. For the most part, ideally you would like to have the whole bladder filled, but here in the real world we will blank off the ends of our scrap endills and use them to fill the bladder and back up our endmill. I wouldn't hold on to any less then about 1-1/2 on most cutters, but you can obviously hold onto less for smaller cutters.

[?Mark]

Thanks Scott, much appreciated.

 

Kind regards, Mark