Appropriate pay for a machinist "intern"?

[Tom Szelag]

Where I work, I started off doing lame work for peanuts salary, cleaning and assembling flight payloads, assorted BS. But since then I managed to get to work in the machine shop. By the time the summer rolls around I'll have about a year's shop experience under my belt.

 

I have a good grasp on Mill 9.1 lvl3, have programmed and run manual mills as well as 2 and 3 axis CNC, little work on Hardinge HLVs, can read G-code, can read engineering prints with GD&T, and can do all sorts of parametric solid modelling in Solidworks and Inventor.

 

So I'm wondering what an appropriate pay rate is. I'm thinking its more than what I'm making now...

[jimspac]

You id yourself as a Sophomore Mechanical Engineer but indicate you will have a full year of shop experience this coming summer. Do you have any degree or certification from tech school or college? A single year of experience does not garner much money in this industry. A place I used to work would hire college graduates fresh out of school with a bachelors degree in engineering and pay them under 40K to start. They would work for 2 years, get Unigraphics training, and then leave for 20K increase someplace else. I saw this cycle happen 3 times in my 4 year employment. I was attending school part time, working as a toolmaker, and the company paid for any course I got a B or above in. I could also see I would have never moved into engineering there because I made too much money(to them) as a toolmaker. The money comes with time and proven experience time after time. Accuracy and reliability goes a long way toward these goals.

[BernieT]

Hi Tom,

 

Do a search on the forum for 'salary' or 'pay', maybe 'pay scale'. This has been covered about 3 - 4 times with answers from all over the world.

 

Since you are a student I suspect $12 - $15/hr is the best you will do. One of the sad things about this trade is that to get a raise you usually have to go out and find another job, then come back and tell your boss "I'm sorry, but I have to go where I get paid better". Then he will either give you a raise or you go to the new place. Unfortunate fact of life.

 

From what I read from your posts, you have a great start on your career.

 

Don't forget, though, that good experience is worth something, too, and maybe this shop is the place to stay awhile.

 

Good Luck

[ChuckM]

"Don't forget, though, that good experience is worth something, too, and maybe this shop is the place to stay awhile."

 

Excellent point Bernie!

 

Seems like you have quite a number of resources at your fingertips there. Good learning experience as I see it. When I 1st started out in this trade working with my father trying to learn the toolmaking end of the trade there wasn't as much computer-end stuff in the shop but there was still plenty to learn.

 

I'd venture to say you can still gain a good deal of experience where you're at now... in the meantime, no harm in pushing for a better wage and/or seeing what's out there.

 

Regards,

Chuck

[Tom Szelag]

Oh I fully intend on sticking around where I'm at while I finish up my degree, with a BS/MS in 2008. By that time I should have 4 years experience.

 

I just wanted to get a feel for what kind of pay I should be expecting. Bout once a year I go in and talk to the director of engineer about work/salary concerns, and I wanted to be well-armed

[CNCme]

Good Day,

 

Quote 1:

assorted BS

 

Quote 2:

I'll have about a year's shop experience under my belt.

 

Quote 3:

Sophomore Mechanical Engineer

 

Another engineer with (a) BS...I dont know

what you think you should make now, but dont

expect to make much as an Engineer. Average

Salary of most Secondary operation engineers,

Which is where you fall in 12/15 years,

(Processes,tooling, and (most can't) programming)

Is at most 60K, and on salary you will work 53-57 Hrs.min. Lets see, thats avg. 20.Hr. And thats when Manufacturing was good. Who Knows what it will be in even 5 years.(or 2008)

 

Suggestion:

If you only have 1 year under your belt...find another line of work, you still have time to save yourself.

 

All seriousness aside, I have 33 years In the trade, now working as a CNC process Engineer/Programmer/senior machinist/deburrr (yea whatever). BUT, don't get me wrong, I love my work, BUT, If I could of seen the future, I would of found something else.

 

Best of Luck in your journey

 

Tony G

CNCiT Precision Machine - Hudson,NH

X Beta Site

Almost Employed Senior Programmer

N.E Massachusetts - Southern New Hampshire

_______________________________________________

To bad we couldn't machine everything with my Bosses finger, it would be much faster.

--------------------------------------------------

[Tom Szelag]

All this is just side work, folks. Stuff during the school year for some extra cash. Still have 2-3 years left at the university. I'm just trying to see what I should be making given what I'm currently doing.

 

This summer I'm trying for some sort of engineering internship in design (at Lockheed, Boeing, Ball Aerospace, etc), and I plan to get my masters in Mechanical Engineering with an emphasis in design and applied mechanics. That's where I intend to push my career. But I also enjoy machining and want to get a hands-on grasp for design for manufacturability. If I can get myself some work this summer at a shop, I'd gladly do that as well. Seems the going rate is about the same for a standard undergraduate engineering internship ($12-16/hr).

[Thad]

quote:

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By the time the summer rolls around I'll have about a year's shop experience under my belt.

---

I don't recall your exact situation, but in this year, was it a year of 50-58 hours per week making parts at a shop or a 40 hour per week doing misc shop tasks (sawing stock, adding coolant to the machines, being the gopher?) Either way, for one year experience, we'd pay 8-10/hr.

 

From my experience, guys in shops make their money from the overtime.

 

Thad

[BernieT]

"From my experience, guys in shops make their money from the overtime."

 

Very good point, Thad. In all my years of work you existed on base pay, lived on OT.

 

Salary can be OK, but only if the OT can be kept under control.

[Tom Szelag]

quote:

---

I don't recall your exact situation, but in this year, was it a year of 50-58 hours per week making parts at a shop or a 40 hour per week doing misc shop tasks (sawing stock, adding coolant to the machines, being the gopher?)

---

Bahhh fine. Half a year then if you want to go like that. Bout 15 hours a week paid at work, 15 hours a week unpaid machining stuff for this FSAE car we're building, since no one else can machine worth a damn. I make the parts though. Get a print...get the stock, either run it manually or program it, set the machine, and run it.

 

Tryin my best guys. On top of a full load of classes and teaching a Solidworks lab.

[apprentice]

Hello, Tom,

If you are learning from your present workplace then stay awhile before you pakcup. Where I apprentice I don't get a real chance to do the machining besides all the mis. jobs (adding coolants, sorting stocks, cleaning machines, etc). I was constantly told this is the way to get started after 3 years of doing this... Disappointing enough, eh? However, I am taking an additional course and I already see its benefits. So, if you are learning, then stay.

[Chris Rizzo]

Participating in FSAE is a pretty good incentive for any aspiring engineer. I remember first seeing the car at my school, and my brain clicked....ahhhh ENGINEERS work on race cars in real life. I want to be an ENGINEER!

 

I was sorry to graduate...well, not too sorry.

 

Keep at it Tom.

[Brendan P]

I've done a Lot of 'Assorted BS' in the 21 years I have been at this, just to get to where I am now!!

[Thad]

quote:

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Bahhh fine. Half a year then if you want to go like that.

---

Tom,

 

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I just gave you my honest opinion. One day, you'll look back and laugh at everything you *thought* you knew with one year's experience. It's all good though. We've ALL been there. Many times in my early machining days, I though I had the world by the balls. Usually not long after that, I was served a nice big piece of humble pie. Keep plugging away at it and things will happen for you. It sounds like you're off to a good start and you're on the right track.

 

Thad teh stepping down from his soapbox

[Brendan P]

Thads right.....

I don't think that 1 lifetime is enough to 'learn everything'!!

[randymcdermott]

Hey Tom,

 

After about 36 years in machine shops and 4 years in CAD/CAM, it seems to me it is sometimes difficult to get the man to cough up a decent wage increase.

 

Don't try to bluff with an ultimatum ie: "Give me more money or I quit". He's probably going to tell you what to do. When you do want to push the issue I think it's best to polish up your resume and apply for a job elseware.

 

If you are accepted and they are offering the wage you want, tell your boss you like working there but you need more money and "So and So" company is offering you X number of $s.

 

Be prepared the accept the other job if he dosn't meet your request but on the other hand if he does, be sure to contact the other company so as to not burn any bridges. Apoligize profusely for declining their offer and tell them your employer made you an offer you couldn't refuse.

 

Engineering, Machining and Programming are all good trades to be in. One never stops learning (if you're good at it). You will never get rich but you will certainly never starve!

 

Best of luck.

 

Randy

[SLJ]

Tom, if you're serious about getting into Aerospace Eng. check out the stress side(Stress Eng., not blood pressure). My Son-in-Law has a BS in Mech. Eng. and just quit Boeing to go contract with Airbus(probably go back after the 60 days requirement is up). There is a real shortage of the stress people, and they have much better stability than the design side. Just wish my Son(also ME from Kstate) would check into it, but he isn't interested in the aircraft industry.

[chip]

Any line of ME is worth it. Just don't change to EE mid way through. I am also going for my ME. I think you just have to find something that suits you. stress analysis on the airbus "herculis" or building video game controllers. My thing is staying motivated for all these years. The more you accomplish the more people will take advantage of you. 2 year drafting they want you to do work as a designer. still program and daily chores. Luckly I have had a couple of oppertunities to just Program. And just design. I like a little of everything. I still enjoy programming the most. It takes the most out of me. and a sence of accomplishment. For now it pays the bills and always room to grow. It's a cut throat world. I got to get up every morning and do something!

 

 

Good luck bro!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Most of the info in this topic is pretty good. Personally, I would not discourage my kids from getting into manufacturing. I would certainly prepare them for the "you gotta pay your dues" aspect of the trade. One can't approach this industry like it's been apporached in the past. Things are vastly different now. I'd venture to say that the $8-$10 range would be the average for that level of experience. Unlike many of my cynical colleagues here, I am optimistic for US mfg.

[George_Gerhard]

Tom

I love manufacturing, I love anything mechanical, however I dont feel people in this industry are compensated properly. Of course everyone has a different opinion on what a good salary is. I graduated high school in 1977 4 years of machine shop, in 1978 in was in the New York City apprenticeship program, 4 years later plus 4 years of college at night studying manufacturing technology I was now a journeyman tool and die maker, everyone I knew was making more money than me, I actually left so I could make more money. I have noticed in the northeast where I live skilled people dont earn their just. A sanitation worker makes more money than a cnc programmer or a skilled machinist, and has 6 weeks vacation after 5 years. Does anyone on this forum get that much vacation? I would be surprised if anyone said yes, the reason is you are not a spoke in the wheel, you are needed. I understand in the mid west tool and die makers earn a good living, and the cost of real estate is less than half of what it is in Connecticut. I paid $144,000 for my home in 1986, it was appraised a few months ago for $410,000, how can anyone earning 60k buy a home around here?

Tom I have 2 sons 23 and 21, and I never encouraged them to go into this business, become a financial planner, or if you must work with your hands become an electrician and open your own business. I always felt good about myself because I was working with what I thought was high tech stuff, such as cnc and edm. However I never had the financial sucess as friends of mine who had taken up other occupations. Example a good friend of mine with one year of college works for Metlife, and made over one million dollars in 04, and I am telling you this guy cant tie his own shoes, the year before he made just under a million, so it wasnt just a lucky year. I have been lucky to earn a good salary, because, please I am not bragging. besides the fact that I design machines, and write the ladder logic, I can also make them work, I still teach mc classes and go out in the field to put out fires.

As you said just one year, I would re-evaluate yourself, do you want to make money, or work with machinery?

And no I am not bitter I love this trade

rgds

George

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Be prepared the accept the other job if he dosn't meet your request

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Good point. I've always let them go when they give me one of those "give me more money or I'll quit".

 

If you want more money, prove to me that you're worth it, don't threaten to quit if you don't get it, or I'll let you quit. Doesn't matter who you are.

[gcode]

quote:

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give me more money or I'll quit

---

That's the only way to get a raise where I work.

 

The more subtle form of this is to give notice

because someone has made you a better offer.

Then sit back and see if they'll match or best the new offer.

 

The last programmer who did this at my shop got a pretty good raise. He was a young kid who'd come up from broom operator to machine operator,

to setup man to Mastercam Programmer.

He was seriously underpaid and deserved a good raise.

 

The last machinist was informed that 2 weeks notice wasn't neccessary Its best to really have that new job when you try this

[medaq]

It will pay as good as you can perform.

 

Jim

[Gary]

The best bet is to marry the bosses daughter and not have to no **** but still get paid like you do

[drago]

I totaly agree with George Gerhard.

 

I started my machining "career" as an 16 year old apprentice in Germany. Things are quite different there, and in the three and a half years of apprenticeship i learned a lot. I finished as one of the top ten in the region and After the apprenticeship i worked as tolmaker on CNC and conventional Mills and Lathes. I was responsible for everything on the jobs i did. They would give me a print and i would give them Inspected part back. I also got paid what i think i deserved, considering the level of knowledge and skill i had at the time.

Then at 21 years old i moved to the US, Detroit, MI to be exact. Not having any tools or gages,

i had to take a job as a button pusher, for $11 an hour. I was also informed that only reason they're paying me that much was because of my expirience.

After taking advantage of their tool purchase program i quit.

Next place i worked at was an aerospace shop.

They gave me $14, which i was very happy at first, since i was in the country for 6 months only, and i had no idea how much people made.

I was doing everything at that place, running parts setting up machines, programming and even reapiring machines ( Machine repair was part of my apprenticeship). Every time i went in and asked for a raise, i was informed how young i am, and reminded of one screwed-up part i had at that place (one non-conf. part in two years). I was helping other guys all the time with all kinds of things they couldn't do themselves and they were making 10-12 dollars an hour more then me. When I told my foreman, who i was on a very friendly basis with, how other shops would pay me much more money, he said "well maybe you should look for another job then."

 

I did exactly that. In two years at this place i got 2 dollars of raises, and was informed that there was no way in hell they could pay me more.

 

When i went out and found another job, and came back with a 2-weeks notice, all of a sudden they were offering me an 8 dollar raise.

 

The way i see it most of the foremen and supervisors, and other people deciding who gets how much money are full of it.

 

They will try to get you to work for them as cheap as they can, without regard for any human decency.

 

When i quit this job, and they realised that i wont be staying, they started comming at me with all kinds of lies and BS abotu this new place i was going to. I was being told that i would have to buy my own perishable tooling, that i would get laid off within 6 months.

 

The company i was going to was at the other side of the town, and our shop manager, when he came to talk to me, pointed that out and said how i would have to double on my tire rotations and oil changes because of that.

 

Sorry about this rant people, but I'm very bitter about how our industry is ran at the lower levels.

 

You have guys workin on a line at Detroit Diesel, making 29 dollars an hour, while the person who machined the prototype of that diesel engine is making 20.

 

If you think you deserve more money, you'll have to fight. You need to go in there and tell him why you think you deserve a raise, and you have to be prepaired to look for a new job if you don't get it.

 

Personally, every bigger raise i ever got was when i either quit a job or gave a 2-weeks notice.

 

Very Sad but also very true.