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msatercams future?

chad fisher

By chad fisher,
in Industrial Forum

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chad fisher Newbie

chad fisher

Posted
Posted

I apologize for the off the wall subject title, but i am sitting here reading through the december issue of modern machine magazine and on pg104 in the mms bulletin board it said that surfcam is going to be donating a version of its two axis manufacturing software for FREE! Now i am not trying to advertise for them but if i was a new shop on a budget i might look toward there package figuring if i like it i might invest in it later down the road. I guess what i am thinking here is maybe that is a good idea to promote your product and maybe mastercam should do something in the same matter. Personally i preferr mastercam and probably always will after using some of the brand -x software. But i just hope that CNC Software is still around in the future and making great software for us to use!

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Trevor Bailey Newbie

Trevor Bailey

Posted
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If I was a shop owner and someone offered me FREE software, I would ask WHY is it free??? Then I would definetly look at other brands.

And by the way, nothing is ever FREE!!! You get limited, and I say again, very limited functionality with their FREE stuff. If you want more, then open up your wallet. Also, there will always be that small facter called "tech-support" and the availability of it with the said software. I could go on and on and on, but hopefully you get the picture and can fill in some blanks on your own. CNC has nothing to worry about.

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Trevor ]

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bryan.davis Newbie

bryan.davis

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Sounds like a pretty good buisness ploy to me.

At the end of the day 2D CAM is a done and dusted problem, every man and his dog can and do provide a fully functional 2D CAM package, and there are a number of sub £500.00 2D CAM packages that are very respectable. in much the same way as there are some very useable sub £50.00 CAD packages.

However, the future is undeniably 3D solids, given a very short time 2D CAM will be as much as an anacronism as a drawing board, so giving away your 2D package as a 'loss leader' is a great way of getting customers who will hopefully purchase your full blown 3D solids package at a later date, PLUS whilst the package is free the training is not, and training is a great way of pitching your sale for a 3D package.

Plus by giving away the 2D package you end up injuring your competition who depend upon the sales of their 2D package and will have to restructure their buisness plan as a response.

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Posted
Posted

quote:
Plus by giving away the 2D package you end up injuring your competition who depend upon the sales of their 2D package and will have to restructure their buisness plan as a response.

I would have to heartily disagree. Some years ago while I was an AE for a Machine Tool Builder, they "Gave Away" GibbSCAM Level 0 with certain machine tools. This had virtually no impact on CAD/CAM sales as a whole. As a matter of fact it probably pissed more people off because no support came with it and us AE's used REAL CAD/CAM software. If you've EVER even put your hands on a CAD System, you're pretty much sunk with GibbSCAM.

Now onto SmurfsCAM, for the last few years they have been in a downward spiral to the bottom. They still have a signifigant user base. They are still in the top 10 I would imagine, but it is not growing at the rate it once was and as a result, earlier this year a major portion of their reseller network bailed or were terminated. Here in Southern California (Incedeentally where DP Technology, Gibbs and ASSociates, and Surfware call home) they each have negligible market presence. At one time SurfsCAM pretty much owned a region called the San Fernando Valley but no more. So to summ things up, Surfware is no longer a viable CAD/CAM solution or viable company for that matter. How can somebody survive GIVING things away? Besides, something else to consider, MANY CAD/CAM companies, even some rather large ones charge a mandatory maintenance fee, and that does not even include upgrades/updates. My personal opinion about this is that if a company has to charge for maintenence, they are in financial trouble and cannot support themselves on sales revenue alone and do not deserve my business.

The CAD/CAM market is saturated. UGS has bought SDRC, they also own Parasolid, Dassault bought Spatial Technologies (ACIS) last year. Look for more aquisitions(sp?) The market cannot support the 50+ CAD/CAM Companies out there. I for one am glad CNC Software is family owned. That means they don't have to answer to shareholders that could give a rat's you know what about the product, they only care about p/e ratios, market share, etc.....

Whew, I guess I'll just sit back and let the firestorm begin. biggrin.gif

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bryan.davis Newbie

bryan.davis

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James

I dont think youve got my experience at the bargain basement end of the machine shop market.

Im talking about the guys (and there are a hell of a lot of them) who will go out of their way to save every penny they can, all too often to the point of it costing them more than they save.

Im talking about the companies who wont buy a new CAD computer because the old 386 theyve got in the corner 'was good enough for my dad and it aint broken yet'.

Im talking about the companies that will totally ignore the likes of MasterCAM because 'SurfCAM is free and must be a good package because a lot of other peopel use it'

Any CAD/CAM company that base their future on their 2D technology has not got much of a future left, and giving it away effectively costs them very little as they should have already recouped the developement costs, and any future developement costs can be recouped via the full blown 3D package... but the marketing potential is excellent and could proove very worthwhile...

The future of the bargain basement workshop will go like this.... I cant get any work because my CAD/CAM system is not capable of reading my customers files.... at which point SurfCAM say... well weve got the software to do it, and since youve got 5/10/50 years experience with our product then you will obviously want to save yourself the training overhead of migrating to another package...

and being the best/worst is no reflection on you potential sales, AutoCAD has consistantly been one of the worst CAD packages on the market yet its infectiously popular!!

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d0gFartz Newbie

d0gFartz

Posted
Posted

i would imagine if there giving there sh!t away

its prolly like entry level stuff where its really

limited.I would guess its like an eval deal where

you try it find out you hate it then call your

local masyercam dealer,i think its another lousy

attempt by them to drum up sales,if history serves

me correctly there the ones who avoided solid

modeling in there package for as long as they

could claiming no one will want it its just a

phase.They`ve never really had what you could say

is a real strong business philosophy IMO

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bryan.davis Newbie

bryan.davis

Posted
Posted

These things are not free with MasterCAM either, and Mr bargain basement machine shop wont pay the extra for a telephone support contract anyway (its a waste of money), and when his free CAM package fails to work like it says on the tin he will congratulate himself for not spending £10,000 on a more expensive package rather than realise that if he had spend £10,000 on a more expensive package he would have a system that WORKED!!... meanwhile western industry as a whole is still going down the pan and the Chinese are laughing because they have several hundred thousand pirated copies of Delcam and MasterCAM, no fear of reprisal, and a great deal of entertainemnt reading bulitin boards where we discuss the good/bad points of a free CAM package!

 

BTW dont mock Chinese machining, Ive place £250,000 of orders with Chinese companies this year and the quality standard surpasses what I expect to recieve from a European toolmaker, at half the price using German and Japanese toolsteel and only 7 weeks delivery!

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Posted
Posted

quote:
I dont think youve got my experience at the bargain basement end of the machine shop market.

You're probably right. I've worked in a few basement shops that had that mentality and they are not doing so well. Success does not depend on how much money you spend, it's how smart you are with it.

Free never really is...........

quote:
Im talking about the companies who wont buy a new CAD computer because the old 386 theyve got in the corner 'was good enough for my dad and it aint broken yet'.

It's really sad because those guys don't realize it but they are hurting themselves and their employees by being behind in computer technology 6 generations. They are the equivalent of the strictly manual shops a few years ago and now. Doomed to die, all because they fought progress. Now I'm not saying that shops should just go spend money willy-nilly on the latest technological marvel, be prudent, I mean shoot, for like $300 you can have a very decent P-II 550MHz with at least 128MB RAM. What's $300, that's the handful of broken endmills you saved because of poor CAD/CAM software.

quote:
Im talking about the companies that will totally ignore the likes of MasterCAM because 'SurfCAM is free and must be a good package because a lot of other peopel use it'

These are the same folks that wonder why they can't find a decent SmartCAM Programmer anymore. DUH, they've been gone for like 5 years now, hello!!!!! Not going to last long in todays competitive Machine Shop market.

quote:
Any CAD/CAM company that base their future on their 2D technology has not got much of a future left, and giving it away effectively costs them very little as they should have already recouped the developement costs, and any future developement costs can be recouped via the full blown 3D package... but the marketing potential is excellent and could proove very worthwhile...

Or, it could be the final nail in the coffin. I've used SmurfsCAM and it is truly an inferior product. As of 2000 they were still not truly associative, They were Version 7 surfce machining associative. Useable, but mot nearly as good as today.

JM2C

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Charles Davis Newbie

Charles Davis

Posted
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Even a garage type machining operation requires a significant capital investment. The cost of a Level 1 Mastercam is not great, compared with the cost of equipment and salaries.

But the benefit of having good cam technology, and technical support, can make or break a company.

There are two types of shops out there, the guys who try to cut every corner, and those that run a reputable, serious operation.

From my experience, the super-cheap guys tend to muck along on the edge of failure and never grow. These are the kinds of shops a CAM vendor will never make money from anyway.

The serious guys know that quality is worth paying for. They all seem to do pretty well for themselves, customers, and vendors.

Let surfcam have the cheap mutts and give away software to people who will never buy anything anyway. They can work for free, I won't.

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Kenneth Potter Newbie

Kenneth Potter

Posted
Posted

quote:
There are two types of shops out there, the guys who try to cut every corner, and those that run a reputable, serious operation.

 

Good point & I know that cause I,v seen it with my own eyes. Shops that spend the bucks & dont play cheapy attract the new jobs & hold them !!!! because of there quality. I,m at a shop right now thats on that has its act together!

 

Kenneth Potter

Mastercam Version 10 (cant wait) biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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Charles Davis Newbie

Charles Davis

Posted
Posted

CNC Software was founded by two brothers, Mark and Jack Summers. Jack is a grad of MIT, and did the initial programming. Mark was the business guy. Brian Summers also works at the company.

As far as I know they all still work there every day. And, believe it or not, the owners really know how to use the software. In fact, if you go to a trade show the CEO will be glad to give you a demo!

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