Screwed by MC9.

[rsbeadle]

I just came back from being called back in to work because a part I programmed using MC9 was scrapped. It was not a very expensive part but it is a very "hot" job due in a few days. I drew the geometry correctly, but the toolpath did not follow the geometry. I draw 3D contours to mill bearings for extrusion tooling and if this bug is not addressed further (I ran the Ctour patch already) I may go back to using V8 or try a competitor software that has the bugs worked BEFORE the ship it out. I don't have FTP software, but I can e-mail the program (250K) to anyone who wants to check it out. I will wait a couple of days before I submit to qc to see if it's just my software or if everyone gets the same toolpath error I do.

 

I can fix the problem easily by breaking the arc about .005 long and making a .005 line to the drop line, but my part is scrapped already and this doesn't help after the fact. I fix this problem regularly but a work-around should not be needed for high dollar software like MasterCam.

 

I can toolpath this geometry with the same parameters in V8 and I don't get the error.

 

[email protected]

[cadcam]

you dont have to have te FTP just internet exploer.

just go to were I posted the temp link no password or user name need upload the file then tell uu what is wrong or do you want me to tell you?

 

click on this link for FTP access

 

[ 04-11-2002, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[Charles Davis]

I know you must be frustrated, but try to keep things in perspective.

 

Mastercam is a huge, exceedingly complex program. .0 revs of any software usually have some problems that aren't caught before shipping no matter how good the Quality Control is (and Mastercam's is excellent).

 

I'd be interested in checking out your problem and suprised if Verify or Backplot didn't catch it....

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

To add to what Charles is saying;

 

Steve, what is the possibility that 20 Code Writers, a staff of QC folks and a fairly large Beta Test force could concieve of ALL possible scenarios in ANY software package ? Not to mention the vast numbers of computer hardware/software combinations that could possibly have an effect on each other? Pretty much NO possibility of that one!

 

I can tell you right now EVERY CAD/CAM Software package has bugs. Some you may be willing to live with, some you may not. I'm not trying to make excuses I'm just trying to give you some perspective. I've been using V9 since Beta 1 and I've only had 1 catastrophic (scrapped part) error that was due to software error (the rest were my fault ). I've run into a few bugs but nothing I was not able to work around one way or another.

 

I most certainly would like to see the file. What should I be looking for?

 

Is the problem something you can reproduce? Don't be afraid to send something to [email protected], they have pointed out (kindly I might add) where I have made mistakes if I was in error. They are a great bunch, very helpful to me and I would imagine everybody that e-mails them. Just because something works one way in one version does not mean that it works exactly the same in another. Mastercam does an excellent job of keeping things the same but on occasion they do make changes to how something functions if need be.

 

...or try a competitor software ...

Isn't that like throwing the baby out with the bath water?

 

JM2C

 

[ 04-11-2002, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[mikhael gutman]

Hi!

It could be posting problem. Use varification softwere(Varicut for exam.) to varify G-code.

 

[ 04-11-2002, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: mikhael gutman ]

[Charles Davis]

Put that baby on the ftp!!!! Let's have at it!!!

[cadcam]

Looks as thow I did not set the temp FTP correct last night.

 

So use this temp that should work right. Temp Mastercam FTP

this will be good till this afternoon then the main one will be back up.

[rsbeadle]

Thanks for the input guys, but let me clear up a few things. First, I LOVE Mastercam V9 and probably would not change if I had to. Next, this is not a posting problem as the error ocurs in the NCI, and as a result, the NC code. Furthermore, I can work around the problem, and do regularly (if MC9 doesn't crash when I break a line at length), but as I mentioned work-arounds means more work to get around, and nobody wants more work.

 

Now with that said, I e-mailed the file to James Meyette (sorry again James) with the hope he will add it to the FTP as I always have trouble with that for some reason. I asked him to post the location when he has it up (thanks again James) so that everyone can see what I'm talking about. If not for this forum, a lot of us would be very frustraited with the new errors that were not in V8. I hope with input from you guys and others that the first patch or revision will clear up a lot of the bugs that are giving us problems. Thanks again guys.

[cadcam]

Hey steve that sounds great.

thanks for the clearup.

Next time if you want just send me the file and all I have to is move it from email to the ftp sense I am the FTP.

Will be looking for this file.

 

Here is a question were you able to see the trouble in the Varify?

Being the NCI.

I would like to see the file and the code. so I can take it further.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Steve and all;

 

I checked it out and what I did was to adjust the linearization tolerance to .0001 and set the max depth variance to .1 and I did not see the same erratic behavior that I saw in your original file. I uploaded the file into the upload folder of the FTP site. I just arbitrarily picked those numbers because I've had success with 3D contour adjusting these values in the past. I'm somewhat hesitant to call this a bug because of the degree of variance in depth, but then again these settings IMHO should be able to be the same from Version to Version (PDG or anybody else for that matter feel free to correct me if I am wrong). In Beta 2 or 3 I had a similar problem with 3D Contour but my issue was resolved in the next release.

 

There are two files screwed1.mc9 and screwed1_james.mc9, kind of a bummer of a name but I really didn't thnk about it until after I uploaded it. DOH!

 

Let me know what you think Steve.

[johns]

I think that the frustration expressed has been echoed at each new release, something that worked fine before now is erratic or doesn't work at all . In this case, if modifying tolerances can cure the problem, then MC should look at having the defaults set right in the software when its loaded. There have been many questions concerning allocations and tolerance settings and I find it odd that the settings are so low, as if we are running a 486 with 32 mb ram. Realistically, it should be a given that the minimum is a P450 with 128 MB ram.

It would be prudent to set these values and do all testing useing the defaults, so the newbies don't run into problems right away. How about a spec sheet, outlining settings and tolerances

for different systems, including processor, OS and RAM ? That may be of great service to many customers and would only need to be sent once.

[P_Scott]

Johns,

 

There are too many different combinations of hardware for the development folks to adequately determine those values. We have a range of clients using a P1 266 machine with 96Mb of RAM to a X.X GHz processor with over 1 Gig of RAM. Obviously the allocations and tolerances are not going to be the same on both computers. Everyone is different. There may be a way to set the adjustment of allocations at the install of Mastercam but it would still be up to the end-user to input their settings correctly. Many end-users have no idea what their hardware is capable of. What about when upgrading the system or getting a new one? Should you maintain the allocations and tolerances you were using on the older/slower computer? Don't get me wrong. I think it would be great if Mastercam had a way of setting the tolerances and allocations during the install, but they change with the situation. IMHO. Sorry for the long post.

[ak762]

Hi everybody,

Always interesting to know about interesting ideas

Sometimes for special purpose we use VMC Cincinnati as lathe machine without any problems

because have not CNC lathe machine at our tool shop.

Will interesting to know have anybody experience to use mill machines for grinding, for slotting or other

not typical process. And what problems appear with it.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

Realistically, it should be a given that the minimum is a P450 with 128 MB ram.

---

I would disagree. Unfortunately a lot of the cheapest people I know are machine shop owners and they refuse to upgrade until the last possible moment, then when they do, they buy the cheapest thing they can get their hands on. The current default settings will work on most every PC down to the P1 w/ 32MB RAM. I would venture to say that dealers should mention default settings when the software ships so that the customer has an idea about what to change in case of problems. WHen I worked for the local MC reseller, I went and did the installations and set up their configurations with them so that things were in good working condition (at no extra charge I might add) and I'd also get a post or two dialed in for them if necessary.

 

JM2C

[johns]

As I stated, it would be helpful if a sheet of allocation settings were included. Most of the allocations deal with the amount of RAM to allocate so it should be a simple thing to do. I know about "cheap" bosses. Our production manager has a P 66 thats 7 yrs old. The boss has it in his head that since he paid $6000 for it, it should be good enough. To review a file in MC or Cadkey ( say 6 to 8 Meg) it can take 3-5 minutes to load, and DON'T try to dynamically rotate or shade!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

Most of the allocations deal with the amount of RAM to allocate so it should be a simple thing to do.

---

Not as simple as you may think. What you allocate has to do not only with how much physical RAM you have in your system,but how much AVAILABLE RAM you have, what OS you're running, what kind of work you do (Toolpath intensive, Modeling intensive, Both, Neither) etc... Does Microsoft send a Virtual Memory table with it's OS's? No! Why not? Because there are too many variables and possibilities. It woudl be nice it just would not be practical and besides, when V10 hits, it'll be a moot point anyway. The reason that allocations ecist now is because it's basically a legacy DOS product and back in the day you had to set aside memory for your applications to run properly.

 

JM2C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Steve,

 

I'm assuming that fixed the problem?????

[rsbeadle]

James, I had already had a work around that got me by, but thanks for asking. I am curious as to how you came up with .1 as the "Max Depth Variance" setting. I have a lot to learn about the setings in Mastercam, but I would think that this number would need to be low for a 3D contour to keep the tool on the geometry. Anyway, I have a new problem now. Try to rotate a multi-surface rough pocket toolpath by using the transform rotate function but rotating more than one op using the same tool. V9 makes one pass at the first depth cut and freaks out. Hard to explain I guess. I am still fighting with MC9 freezing when using MODIFY-Anything (fillet, extend, break at length ) when an input is required. I have to save constantly, every couple of functions. I hope the patch is out soon.

[L Hanft]

Kind of makes you wonder if the first patch/fix should be to the box that is running V9. You seem to have multiple problems that can't always be duplicated. Just wondering if your computer setup is complaining. I have V9 on several machines from junk to fairly good boxes, most of the problems have been my mistakes or a weak video card that I alread knew about.... just wondering.....

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

I am curious as to how you came up with .1 as the "Max Depth Variance" setting.

---

To be brutally honest, I just pulled those numbers out of my @$$ and got lucky. But I'm going to do a little looking into those numbers what they really mean, not what they apparently mean. But I too expected as you did but it seems to be the opposite.

 

I concur with Larry. You may want to look at your computer because if I had as many problems as you do (that's not to say Mastercam is perfect because we all know better than that) I'd be pretty pissed too. Graphics plas a HUGE and underestimated role in overall system stability. I would reccommend you turn your colors down from wherever they are to High Color (16bit), your eye can't differentiate that many colors anyway and it eats graphics performance like there's no tomorrow. When you FIRST goin to Mastercam in the morning, BEFORE opening a part, go to screen, configure, go to the screeen tab, then uncheck "Enable OpenGL Drawing". Save the settings and go about your business. That shoudl help. If not, you may want to go into the advanced settings for your display and turn the hardware acceleration down one notch at a time to see if that helps.

 

Hope that helps.

[rsbeadle]

Just for refrence, I am running a Dell Dimensions 4400 with 2.0 Ghz P4, 64 meg graphics card. 512 meg ram, Windows 2000 Pro. Only Windows, Mastercam, and Autocad 2000 are the major programs installed, and Mastercam is the only window open when I'm programming parts. I Have only had the computer for a couple of months, but the first 6 weeks using MC8 were flawless. The last two weeks since the V9 install have been H$LL. See my frustration.

[gcode]

Would your graphics card have the NVIDIA MX chipset? Almost everyone running the MX cards has had problems with them. NVIDIA Geforce is a good chip for Mastercam, but when you add the MX, you get real trouble.

[JAMMAN]

Wow Gcode, you took the post right out of my slow typing hands.(notice the time on the post)

 

Steve, what exact vid card do you have?

[gcode]

I brought it up because Dell has been shipping a lot of machines with ATI and Geforce MX cards.

Both are pure poison for Mastercam users!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...64 meg graphics card...

---

And who, if I may ask, is the Mfr. of your Video Card? As was noted by my esteemed friends in the forum MX and ATI spell death to MC users! Well they did not put it exactly like that, but I will.

 

JM2C