Fanuc 3000C with G39 & vectors Post?

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

We've got this ancient Fanuc 3000C (circa 1979)

on a Matsuura VMC (solid as a rock). I'm looking into getting the post ironed out. This control has no look-ahead capability, therefore it needs some extras that are not required nowadays.

 

They call them vectors and what they are is a way

of telling the control what direction the first move is after a cutter comp lead-in move. It uses I & J's

 

 

ex: G90 G00 X-.1 Y-.1

G01 G41 D01 X0. I0. J1.

Y1.

 

 

would tell the machine the first move is 90 deg.

 

the I & J values are unimportant, it is the angle

(arctan) they describe that is. These are based on a circle with a 1" radius.

 

i.e. for a 45 deg. angle = I.7071 J.7071

for a 135 deg. angle = I-.7071 J.7071

for a 225 deg. angle = I-.7071 J-.7071

etc...

 

Also,

 

Whenever there is a corner move with no radius programmed i.e. G01 X1.

Y3.

X5. ETC...

 

there needs to be a G39 (corner offset code)

as well as a vector showing where the next endpoint is so the machine knows when to start decelerating,

 

ex: G90 G00 X-.1 Y-.1

G01 G41 D01 X0. I0. J1. <--- C.C. VECTOR

G39 I0. J2.1 <---------INCREMETAL DIST. IN Y

Y2.

G39 I5. J0 <-----------INCREMETAL DIST. IN X

X5.

 

It also uses spindle speed codes from a table but the post I have has this and just needs to be modified.

 

Does anyone have a post that does this?

The post I got from my reseller for a 3000C doesn't do this. Is there something else needed as far as misc. values or such? I more or less just need to know if this has been done before.

Also, if someone has a working one and wouldn't mind sending it to me it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Scott Garrison

Weiler Engineering

[Guest]

oh boy.

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

Del,

 

Is that how you got to be a Senior member with such helpful replies as above? Also, that Matsuura will be running when our new Haas's are in the boneyard.

 

Scott

[Guest]

Careful bud, you didn't read the FAQ

 

Asking for a post is NOT a good way to get started around here.

 

I would suggest you go BACK to your reseller and ask them to modify this for you.

[Guest]

no scott, just that someone else here will blast you for asking for a post on your first post.it is in the forum guidelines.check it out.

[Guest]

posted 01-14-2004 03:25 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rule #1: Don't ask for a Post Processor.

 

Ask this question as your first message here and you won't necessarily like the responses you receive. The eMastercam.com Lynch Mob is on much higher alert than you could ever imagine.

 

Look to your reseller to supply you with the proper post for your machine, or quote for the work that needs to be done.

 

If you have something and are looking for improvements, it's a reasonable request. Maybe tell us why the post you have needs improvement.

 

Perhaps try to participate a bit on the Forum before you go asking for something. Not unlike Habitat for Humanity, we value Sweat Equity here. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

 

You may also want to let everyone know your company name so that your Hotmail or Yahoo email account doesn't give everyone the impression that you aren't a licensed Mastercam user.

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

Yes, I did read read the FAQ. I more or less am just trying to see if this is possible or if it is something to do with misc. variables.

& if anyone has seen this before (even with non-Mastercam software). I've written/modified plenty of posts, mostly for SmartCam & Gibbs and I'm just getting into the MasterCam Posts. I've already made changes for our 6MB and Haas's.

 

I have emailed my reseller with all of the above and am waiting for a reply. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that this is not an easy change, even for someone experienced with MC posts. That's the only reason I asked if someone already had one.

 

If I can't get Mastercam to do this we probably will just upgrade the control to a newer Fanuc. Those are the two routes we have.

 

Oh, just to let you know I'm using a 30 year old text based cam system called Genesis that can do these vectors. I'm not dead in the water here. We've been making money this way for years.

 

Scott Garrison

CNC Programmer

Weiler Engineering

www.weilerengineering.com

[crazy^millman]

Well it can be done, but not for the faint of heart. You sound like you know what you are doing so just tinker with it. I serious doubt someone has exactly what you are looking for thought they might. Either way it is not policy around here to cut off the hand that feeds us and giving away something that is taking food out of a dealer mouth is just not going to happen very easy. Kind of you would want someone to take food out of your mouth. Vector Math is easily done in Mastercam, getting the correct output might be a little tricky is all. Do a search on the forum and also look on the FTP there is a vlib.zip that covers this very well that might be of assistance. It is in the Text_&_post_files_&_misc folder. Link to FTP is at top of the WEB page here.

 

Del is a respected member here so you might heed his warning we like sweat equality around here and hope you can appreciate that.

 

I have a saying do not expect keys to the castle without wading through a little mud.

 

HTH

[Guest]

thanks ron, much appreciated

 

right back atcha.

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

Ron,

 

Thanks, I'll check that out. I have already searched this board for Fanuc 3000c & G39. I only came up with 2 matches that were not useful.

 

We've spent thousands on multiple seats at my company so it will not be a big deal to pay for a custom post.

 

You know, Gibbs does not let end users modify posts. You need a compiler to do it and the only way to get one is to take the class at their corporate office in California. This way they control the posts much more carefully and therefore their resellers get their cut. I worked for a Gibbs reseller and when I did a change for a customer I sent it off to Gibbs with all the machine/control info where they gave it a long & descriptive name and tossed it into their library. If someone in the future needed a post like that they would charge for it. They would charge for ther same post over & over.

They also guarantee the code because they do have that control. If Mastercam had gone that route we would not be having this discussion.

 

I don't see that much difference between coming here for technical support, versus calling the reseller for said support, which has to be paid for. How many people on this site come here 1st to get an answer instead of calling the reseller 1st or even pay for technical support? How different is that from sharing posts? Now it's different if people are hoarding posts to accumulate a huge library that they can market them to MC users. As far as I can see there are no copyrights on these posts like other intellectual property. It just seems kind of willy nilly how these posts are handled. If being paid for them is so critical they should have made them end user non-modifiable.

 

Well, that's my 2 cents.

 

Scott

[Colin Gilchrist]

Hi Scott,

 

One of the reasons Mastercam is so successful is that they do have a user modifiable post.

 

Mastercam also does give the post writer the ability to "Bin" (encrypt) a post. This Bin process produces two files, a .PST which is the file the user can read (and modify) and the .PSB which is the encrypted portion. It is up to the post writer how much of the logic and settings they want to espose to the .PST portion.

 

The Bin process can also lock a post to a specific HASP if necessary. Then that post will only run on that HASP period.

 

Different resellers have different policies regarding posts and the work they put into them. Many members here will gladly give you a copy of a post they have, help you modify your post, or even modify your post for you, once you are a known member.

 

We are wary of Forum Trolls though. A Troll is a member who hangs around here, saying nothing of value to help anyone else, and expects things for free. Trolls often critize everyone and everything or complain non-stop. (Graphical Toolpath Editing anyone?)

 

The users that come in here are part of an awesome community of Mastercam users that will bend over backwards to help a fellow member, once you are known to us, and you show that you aren't a Troll.

 

This is in no way a reflection on you Scott. Just general advice and a description of our forum etiqutte. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

[crazy^millman]

Well to be honest it is open to what you are willing to get involved in. If you have the time and it does no cost your company down time to develop your own post then you sir can tap that market. Problem is most of the 5 axis post are binned so they are locked up and companies that do 5 axis post also bin their post which locks them up to particalar sims. So they do have control on the 5 axis post and posts made by vendors they do not control all the basic posts which is what you are thinking applies across the board with post and it does not. With that said you can go out develop your own 5 axis post and give it away for free I will be one of the 1st one is line if you so feel the need to take on that challenge. I have tweaked and added things to post since I 1st started doing Mastercam, but time is money and money is time and if you are the person to spend 40 to 120 hours of your time making a good 5 axis post and give it aways for free again I am the 1st in line to get one.

 

Now if you get stuck; which I don't think you will since you are such an expert, but if you do maybe need help maybe some of use non-expert people can help you out. Good luck and you got me in line for that free 5 axis post when it is ready thanks a lot.

 

Again welcome to the forum and glad ot have such an expert coming on board.

[Colin Gilchrist]

You should also contact your Reseller and ask for a copy of the Version 9 Post Reference Guide. This PDF in combination with the Mastercam X post update PDF will explain in great detail all of the functions of the post and how to setup the PST file to accomplish what you are trying to do.

 

Can what you are looking for be done? Absolutely. I have no doubt that the MP.dll has functions to calculate the vectors, store those as variable values and insert them in the appropiate places. In addition to working with your reseller, you could try writing to [email protected] for assistance in doing your own modifications.

 

I think Paul Decelles is one of the Post gurus at CNC Software. He might be able to chime in here and offer some assistance.

[Zoober]

Scott, ya gotta get to know the mindset here. These folks will help you out a lot. But most here make money making programs and chips, not posts. Very rarely are posts exchanged here.

Unlike Gibbs and other wares, MC is pretty wide open, and you can do fantastic things once you learn how. I've gotten most of our generic posts for free or very little from our reseller, and modified them. Some have been made to do probing, and other things that most systems don't do. some of the tricks were learned here, some from my reseller, but most from diving into the shallow end head first.

 

Your particular problem doesn't sound too hard.... you need to save current positions in a variable to compare to the next position, then do some vector math. Fill your vector (IJK)variables with the resultant math, etc etc etc.

The main problem is doing this will take some hours to do, and I don't know anybody that gives those away.

Dig in, get stuck, bang yer head, and I'm sure somebody here will try to help you solve some problems.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Roger Peterson]

move_ang$

 

 

It's been years since I've used this variable, and never for what you want. I do not remember how it reacts to arcs either, but I'm sure a couple of simple tests could determine this. But it will give you the angle for the next move and you can trig out your values from there. Or you can buffer out the entire file and parse it from there.

 

 

HTH & good luck!

 

 

HTH

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

To all,

 

That's interesting, I did not realize that part of the post is compiled. I've never seen this .psb file. How is it created? Is there a compiler? I really don't care to hide anything on my posts anyway so it's not really relevant. My post output will be unrecognizeable to most programmers anyway G45 H01 Z-0 length offset anyone?

 

I hear what everyone is saying and I appreciate the feedback. I don't want to be considered a troll, although I don't always have this kind of free time to post. I'm slow right now & that is why I'm trying to get this post figured out. I've been putting this off since X came out so you can see that I don't get this slow often.

 

I have been at this site before but just to browse, I have been using MC for a couple of years now but only for limited jobs like punch nests for our deflasher tooling. Everything else is simple 2-1/2D. I do on Genesis whick rocks for hole making (90% of all machining). I will contribute to this site when I have something to add, right now I'm just getting my feet wet. This post is why I haven't done more, we need to be able to run all jobs on all machines. I have 6MB & Haas post working fine but not this old 3000C. I just got our Agie wire figured out and next to come is our Mori lathes. I want all my posts figured out before I get deep into the software.

 

I already have the Mastercam post reference

guides, infact, I actually printed all of them out and put them in binders (last time I was slow) I work better from manuals, can't explain why, guess I'm too old school. I will first see what my reseller has to say and if I get nowhere, I will see what I can do with some help fron CNC. I do have to say that the post structure for MC is a little tough for me to read, I have to unlearn some things engrained in me like # sign for comment, in SmartCam that was for variables. I had a devil of a time figuring out the formatting statements!

 

I'll let you all know when I have a 3000C post working.

 

Roger, thanks for the tip, hope I can return the favor someday.

 

Also, I work with a guy who posts here under the name of chipman who's been here a a while longer tha myself. He programs our molds & I do the machine parts.

 

Scott

[Watcher]

Hi Scott!

 

Just for reference:

 

In-House Solutions (The company that maintains this board) has some freak post-developers with broad experience with non-conventional post tweaks. These guys have been creating some of the most knotty and bullet-proof posts for Mastercam, being references for resseller, OEM channels and users throughout the world.

 

Who knows, maybe they already developed what you are looking for or can answer your question precisely, at least.

 

Talk to your resseller and ask him to give them a call. If they have something in hands to show off you, maybe, through your resseler they can provide you a timed post for test purposes.

 

Sincerely,

[Colin Gilchrist]

+1 for the quality of In-House Solutions work.

 

Every post I write starts its life as an MPMaster.

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

Watcher,

 

Thanks for the tip. I will definetely keep that in mind. I do have a 6MB post that I'm using now and works great. I'm thinking of just modifying that post. All I need is to change it to use spindle codes and then the vectors. I think it is better than trying to work on the 3000c post they gave me which isn't even close. It also is for a 4th axis which we will never run on this machine. My 6MB post is just a modified Generic Fanuc post.

 

Thanks for the info,

 

Scott

[gcode]

quote:

---

I did not realize that part of the post is compiled.

---

Check out the 5axis posts that ship with X.

The psb file is encrypted but can operate with any sim. When you buy a custome post, the developer normaly restricts its use to your sims

as a way of protecting his work.

Any post can be binned though.. we have a 4X Siemmens post here for a German HBM that the developer binned because it was a tough post to write.

[Bryan Johnson]

this is doable, but my concern would be that it is error prone.

 

Why not just run it without cuttercomp?

[Roger Martin from CNC Software]

Scott,

 

"I more or less am just trying to see if this is possible"

YES

 

"...or if it is something to do with misc. var"

NO

 

"...if anyone has seen this before..."

YES

 

I did a post for machine many years ago that needed these 'comp vectors'.

I don't even recall what the machine/control was, just the pain of doing the vectors.

(That's the reason I remember it, as it must have been a least 10 years ago)

 

 

"Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that this is not an easy change..."

 

This is something that if you're not really familiar with doing MP style posts, would take a lot of time & effort.

 

1> Bounce it off your Dealer.

2> The crew @ In-House is certainly capable of doing this.

3> When I get back in the office (Monday) I can look to see if a can find (you never know!) a copy of that old post.

*Not that this 'old' post would work for you, but it may enlighten us on how this vector stuff was done*

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

Roger,

 

Thanks for the input and checking into this post for me. I realize that this is an unusual (old)

control and that the post was going to be an issue. If you do find it, that would be great. My employer understands that we might have to pay for this particular post or upgrade our control which obviously would be much more expensive than the post.

 

Please email me at [email protected]

either way.

 

Thanks,

 

Scott Garrison

Weiler Engineering

Elgin, IL

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Good Afternoon Scott,

 

Welcome to the Forum. There's a guy that trolls (not to be confused with being a troll) ... John Summers. He is definitely a Vector Wizard which is what this calls for but you are definitely in good hands with Roger as well.

 

In-House Solutions and CAD/CAM Consulting in southern California are outstanding post developers as well.

 

JM2C

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

CNC Apps Guy,

 

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep a lookout for John and maybe I can get in contact with him.

 

Hopefully Roger can find this old post. I'm tempted to give it a shot myself just to help me learn how these posts work. I've done the usual simple mods and taken a class. That said, there is no substitute for getting in there and figuring it out. Especially when the post is for your own use.

 

Scott

 

P.S. I like your quote from Patrick Henry. So true but all you hear is the phrase "Separation of Church & State" over & over from our friends at the ACLU.