What are operators allowed to do while machine is running

[Mcam Nut]

quote:

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the dream of seeing the look on my bosses face when I find another job and he realizes no real programmer/operaters will work there.

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[kenfromlodi]

Hardmill,

 

we did finally restrict internet access to the shop floor so more web browsing, they werent looking at anything to improve their skills anyhow.

 

CRFJim,

I feel your pain, it is very similar here.

Very big shop and plenty of stuff gets pushed to the people who are already doing more than the job description entails.

[CRFJim]

The thing that bothers me isn't hard work, it's becoming "the invisible man" since I don't complain, I'm always here and I don't ask for a raise constantly. I prefer to let my work speak for itself in hopes that someone will take notice and offer the increase. But instead, the attitude is, "give it to Jim, he doens't complain and he'll get it done". They know that if some of the "more seasoned" guys get a tough job, they whine and moan, take forever and may end up scrapping it in the end anyway.

[kenfromlodi]

Jim,

 

I seems that usually the only way to get something more is to play the quitting game and I hate doing that.

[routerman7030]

hey cncjb, where in PA are you located??

[Westgate Hardwoods]

Our Router Operator also runs and maintains the Edgebander so that keeps him pretty busy and then I load him up with the latest trade Mags. if by some odd chance he has free time.

[CNCme]

Good Day,

 

And you guys wonder why manufacturing in the USA

is in trouble.

 

Even this discussion about letting machine personel read anything but drawings, work orders,

inspection sheets or criteria related to work

is not good.

 

Our operators have been trained to use cells

to keep busy, the activity they use is not reading

but constructive machine operations that challenge

them to learn and become better machinist.

 

challenge:::

2. something that by its nature or character serves as a call to battle, contest, special effort, etc.:

 

 

The American worker, not only in manufacturing,

IS LAZY...and most come to work to forget what

they are doing for 8 hours.

 

Our shop forman spends more than half the day

reminding people what they are working on, and have heard people joking about it.

 

In my "not so" humble opinion - Perseverance made this country great...

 

Perseverance:::

1. steady persistence in a course of action, a purpose, a state, etc., esp. in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement.

 

 

Tony G

CNCme Engineering

X Beta Site

SO Almost Employed Senior Programmer

N.E Massachusetts - Southern New Hampshire

_________________________________________

End mills and tooling are like The "AMMO"

And coolant and chips are like the enemy

Under your boots as you advance in the

Manufacturing Battle

-------------------------------------------------

[OTOMMYO]

get me coffie

no searously though we do the 2 for the price of 1 thing here, sometimes 3 or 4 for the price of 1.

other then that their is plenty to clean

[kenfromlodi]

It seems there are a great number of people in the trade that have no desire to advance or learn new stuff.

I have guys working here that were set up guys when I first saw a CNC and are still, set up guys.

I remember how I used to look up to these guys.

In fact recently one such guy came to work here and asked me "what did you do to get where your at take a class or something?" a yes! hello! many classes and many hours spent paying attention and learning from senior machinists and many more hours on my own time studying.

 

If you dont put forth any effort to grow you will always be where your at! Left behind!

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

routerman

 

We are located in Aston, PA. I moved here from California a few years ago.

[Formax]

Work is your home away from home,If your machine is running good parts, checks are done, work area clean, I see nothing wrong reading in your work area.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...It seems there are a great number of people in the trade that have no desire to advance or learn new stuff...

---

I can't tell you how many people that I sat in a Mastercam Class with at Mt. SAC that ended up being MY students. Man... But you know what, without people like that I would not make as much money as I do.

 

So, keep up the good work slouches, you're helping my bottom line!

 

[ 01-21-2008, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: CNC Apps Guy ]

[Jim at Gentex]

quote:

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Even this discussion about letting machine personel read anything but drawings, work orders, inspection sheets or criteria related to work is not good.

---

As opposed to programmers who have time to reply to these threads here in the forums?

 

With all due respect, Tony, your reply smacks of hipocrisy.

 

Yeah, any shop can be hard@$$, but I've worked in both kinds and I personally prefer a more laid-back atmosphere, AS LONG AS THE WORK IS GETTING DONE.

[Ployd]

We can choose between squat thrusts and jumping jacks. I want them to let me bring in my exercise steps so I can aerobicise.

 

At our shop you run the machine and program and clean up and drive the fork and set up and sand, etc. And if you have time you can work on the books, not read them.

[CNCme]

Good day

 

Do you mean ----hy·poc·ri·sy

 

What I say IS what I believe... and the terms

"laid back" and "Machine shop" dont go together.

 

 

Tony G ( hard@$$ )

CNCme Engineering

X Beta Site

SO Almost Employed Senior Programmer

N.E Massachusetts - Southern New Hampshire

_________________________________________

End mills and tooling are like The "AMMO"

And coolant and chips are like the enemy

Under your boots as you advance in the

Manufacturing Battle

-------------------------------------------------

[Mcam Nut]

quote:

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the terms

"laid back" and "Machine shop" dont go together

---

I would have to dissagree, we machine some of the most complex castings in the world, with very little scrap, if any at all. Our shop has a full gym for the employees to use during long cycles, and a pc and phone at every machine. most of the employees love there job, and are not a bit stressed at all. I have worked at shops where the boss is always on the employees, and everyone is going a million miles per hr, trying to do everything at 1 time. I find you get alot higher scrap rates and stressed out employees in a work enviroment like that, I also find the operator will not take the time to do a proper manual inspection, if he is trying to run 5 machines, clean the shop, and wipe the bosses a$$ all at the same time, leading to a higher scrap rate. I guess in some shops it would work, but I have found in the past that when you try to do many jobs at a time, that quality will be compromised. Also, I wonder how many people can actully say they enjoy going to work? I can actully say for the first time, I am not a bit stressed out, and I enjoy my job. JM2C.

[John13]

quote:

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how many people can actually say they enjoy going to work?

---

I also enjoy going to work, the smell of freshly baked cookies all day is great

[Guest]

quote:

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"laid back" and "Machine shop" dont go together

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Tony, don't confuse laid back with 'not caring"

 

laid back IMO means not having your boss screaming down your back and getting the eff' out of the way and letting YOU get your job done.

 

Having done ALOT of challenging, extremely fussy and tight tolerance work, I didn't need my boss over my shoulder. 1 pc of 10k/15k material, I don't need the 'effin' added stress.

 

Laid back does NOT mean unsupervised, it means the supervisor/management/owner not adding any more stress or BS to what can already be a high stress and fast paced occupation.

 

JM2C

[Mcam Nut]

Well said John, when working on a 50k casting, you cant be stressed out

[John13]

quote:

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Well said John, when working on a 50k casting, you cant be stressed out

---

I don't work with 50k castings , just a couple of spoons.

 

Don't you know anything about baking cookies?

[Mcam Nut]

quote:

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Don't you know anything about baking cookies?

---

lmao, I guess I could probally learn if you need a hand, if you would like, I could probally make you a program for some pretty cool cookie cutters.

[Jim at Gentex]

quote:

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Laid back does NOT mean unsupervised, it means the supervisor/management/owner not adding any more stress or BS to what can already be a high stress and fast paced occupation.

---

EXACTLY what I meant.

 

I've worked in other places where the stress level was high just because everyone was always on edge because of a hard@$$ boss who was NOT part of the solution.

 

I do enjoy my current job and my current boss.

If I see him more than once a day it's unusual.

He actually TRUSTS me enough not to hover over me, and I respond in kind by doing my work within schedule and within tolerance.

 

Laid back doesn't mean lazy either!

[Mike Gates from Barefoot CNC]

When I was managing the CNC Dept. at my last gig we had work cells set up. The cnc operator might run a router and while the machine was cycling the operator took the piece that just came off the machine and flat belt sanded it, side stroke sanded it, and/or jitterbugged it depending on the part. Some cells ran solid wood parts those operators used brush sanders and hand sanded. we got creative in laying out the cell so that the operator wasn't killed but did stay busy. Maybe there are some later operations that they could be doing. Glueing in dowels was a good one we used.

[Jim at Gentex]

Hey, Mike.

 

The cell idea is a good one and I'm sure your guys liked to stay busy which makes the time pass a bit quicker during a shift.

 

My point was that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

It's all about the attitude of management. As JP pointed out, some places make the job more stressful than it needs to be which isn't good for ANYONE in the longrun.

 

I realize my perspective is different than many other people here in the forum. I have kind of a unique situation here since I work in a prototype environment where I am the programmer, setup man, and the operator of one 5 axis CNC machine. (Deckel-Maho DMU80T )

 

Most of what I do is 1-off stuff, or short-run prototyping runs of maybe 20-30 parts. As such, I will sometimes have a part with a 4-5 hour cycle time. There's only so much cleaning up and organizing the drill and end mill cabinet I can do while waiting for the cycle to finish!

 

As long as I have my next job programmed and posted, my boss is OK with me surfing the net a bit, or reading the newspaper or a book if I so desire while my machine is running. My 'office' is located in the same room with my CNC, so I do watch and listen to the machine during the cycle in case a tool breaks or a coolant problem arises. Other than that, I just need to keep the parts moving and deal with any problems as they arise.

[kenfromlodi]

We have had cells set up for the last 11 years and our production stuff runs very efficiently and guys are able to cross train and learn more machines because of it. It seems that alot larger shops have Lathe Dept's and Mill Dept's and alot of guys are either one or the other a lathe guy or a mill guy and then separated even further by vertical mill and horizontal. The creation of cells has helped to train guys on all types of machines instead of just what they are good at.

 

As I mentioned in my earlier post our shop has been very laid back and I may not agree with alot of peoples personal work ethics but we get the job done! It has been a great place to work. We make some of the most Technical Rich Assemblies for Semi-Conductors in the world and are the sole producer on about 70% of our product line.

Our shop has grown exponentially because of this from about 20 cncs and 60 employees when I started 10 years ago to over 500 employees and more than 100 cncs now and this is just this site. We have been bought and sold 3 times and acquired 8 other large companies along the way.

Would this all have happened from a small dictator type shop? Not in my opinion. Machining is a very fine skill and cannot be rushed!! There are of course people that will take advantage of this and do less than required. Personal work ethic is what causes this not the laid back atmosphere in the company.

 

Needless to say each larger company that purchases

us has to streamline things more and more to get a return on their investment and the employees start to really feel the effects of that. This might be surprising but machinists are temperamental and very arrogant (myself included) when it comes to our work. Some of these things cannot be rushed and added stress only slows production and does not increase it.