Advantages of X?

[CRFJim]

I finally talked my supervisor into trying Mastercam X to see if we (I) could benefit from the improvements. He bought a demo version and text book and I've been fooling with it in my spare time this past week. I know fully well I haven't even scratched the surface of it, but I honestly don't see even one advantage. It seems (to me) to just be different, not better. Maybe it's because I'm used to V9 but when I started in school we used V7 and with every successive version, I could see improvements, at least until now. It appears to have all the same functions, but they're just presented in an AutoCad-type format. Again, I'm no genius, but I must be missing something because I've read some very smart programmers rave about MastercamX, and maybe with time, I'll find the advantages, but right now I'm not seeing it. Sooooo, what do you guys feel is the advatage of X? Thank You!

[Guest]

Nothing, I am going back to 3.1

 

 

Seriously Jim,

 

do a search on this it has been beaten more times than a red-headed step-child

[CRFJim]

How did you know I had red hair?

[Guest]

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Jim,

 

 

I'm not going to make a list of all the advantages because there are too many to list, but let me sum it up into one huge advantage. I used V9 for years and loved it. However since I have switched to X I can truthfully tell you that I am programming faster now than I ever have before, and that is what really matters. Getting the job doen more efficiently. It will take some effort to switch over but it is well worth it. Also I am a huge advocate of staying up with the latest technology in the industry and V9 has fallin behind. Always consider the future. The longer you wait the harder it will be to catch up with the rest of the industry. Unfortunately time does not stand still and technology progresses. Would you say someone using Version 6 is behind the times. It will not be long until version 9 is just as far behind when compared to the latest version of mastercam.

[Guest]

Hmmmm,

 

 

6, 7, 8, 9

 

X, X2, X3-coming "soon"

 

 

so at some point in time, likely next year at some point in time V9 will be the current equivalent of V6 currently.

 

"Times they are a changin'

[CRFJim]

Thanks cncjb, I have no doubt that technology progresses and I really do need to stay current in order to keep from becoming an obsolete employee. I'm working with my boss to make room in my schedule to allow me to take a "real" class to better learn Mastercam X. But right now, all I see in X is change for change's sake. I guess it's just fustration on my part talking now, the parts I can program in V9 in ten minutes are taking upwards of an hour in X. My current employer would love to keep current, but I need to take something to them that proves X is better and can save money, not just that "everyone else is doing it". But I'll stick it out, take a class and learn it, but it'd be a lot easier to do if I knew there was a better reason than "(fill in the blank) says it's better".

[Guest]

quote:

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but it'd be a lot easier to do if I knew there was a better reason than "(fill in the blank) says it's better".

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OK, tell him I said it's better

[CRFJim]

LOL! If they only knew that you were the one who bails me out of all my programming troubles NOW, they'd bounce me out the door and be calling you anyway! Seriously, thanks for the patience and good advice, both in the past and the future. I read lots of everyone's posts here and really respect the group of guys who post on this forum.

[cadcam]

Tell us what type of parts you cut and what Level of mastercam you have being Level 1 to Level 3 mill lathe ?

[Guest]

Seriously Jim,

 

There are many functions that though they may function a "little" different then previous they DO function better.

 

Speed is the biggest thing you WILL realize after about a month or so of solid work at it. The change over the X as I have been saying for 2 and 1/2 years is seat time. Seat time, seat time, seat time, will cure your initial woes. After 4 weeks of plugging away in X, if you have to go back into V9 for something you WILL stumbe and bumble around it.

 

X is customizable so you can lay it out in a manner that works for you, except of course no left side menu

 

drop down menus, tool bars, a custom right mouse button or any combination of them all help to make the experience cleaner and more intuitive for the user. You still have access to some of the older key strokes if you "really" think you need them.

 

There is new tool functionality included at this point.

 

There are so many places that X is better than V9 and mind you I previous have made the statement that by the time V9 SP2, that was as good as any CAM system out there. It is an WAS a great version.

 

CAM systems are about helping you to do your job better and faster, X2 once transition, WILL make those axioms very true.

[CRFJim]

As far as what parts I cut and type of machine, I primarily cut simple, 2D parts in steel on a Haas VF6. Nearly all my parts are one-off and speed and accuracy are equally important. As far as the level of MasterCam X I have, I'll assume it's not X2, since the textbook and disc both are labeled simply MasterCam X. The Book is called "Learning MasterCam X 2D, Step by Step" and is written by James Valentino and Joseph Goldenberg. One of my gripes is that the viewing screen is reduced since all the controls clutter half the screen. I only have a 15.5 (viewable) CRT screen as it is and to have half that covered with control functions is maddening. Not only that, but what's wrong with actual WORDS to decribe the functions? I learned to read for a reason, now I have to deciper hyroglyphics as well? I always laugh at the registers at fast-food resuraunts, the people who work there are so dumb they need pictures of the food printed right in the keys because learning the price of the products is above their cranial capacity, and now that's the exact mentality I have to use to be succesful at X? Again, please don't take my whining too seriously, it's just frustration I suppose and I'll post a full apology if and when I become familiar with it, but for now it just seems pointless.

[gcode]

Jim,

you can customise the toolbars to any degree

you wish. I personnally run with one row across the top and nothing on either side. My goal is maxium drawing space.

 

The old V9 shortcut "ALT O" will minimize the

Operations Manager, giving you even more space,

but I have to agree with you, X2 on a 15in

screen would be very difficult to work with.

As cheap as LCD flat screens are these days, there really is no need to suffer such a small screen.

 

Your employeer clearly has no reason to upgrade

as you are getting the job done with V9 and a 15in screen.

Personally though, you need to keep your skills

up to date.

see Page 4

 

Mastercam has a sunset policy now and with the release of X5, V9 will be an unsupporrted version.

Its going to get harder and harder for a V9 driver

to get a job in the coming years.

Its also going to get harder and harder to keep V9 running.

V9 is not supported on Vista and V9 drivers

will have to become computer gurus just to keep

older and older hardware/OS's running as the years go by.

 

A couple of years ago I worked (very briefly) with a guy who was stuck on an old 2d version of Surfcam running on AppleII. He refused to upgrade or learn anything new.

 

He was totally indespensible at this shop as he was the only guy on the planet that had a clue

what all that old CAM stuff was. His gcode

was sweet and he could do some amazing things

with that old 2D package and a text editor.

 

He guarded his postion and files like the crown jewells and was a stone wall when you asked him for help. He had an entire closet full of

old AppleII's and spent his weekend prowlling

swap meets and garage sales looking for parts.

 

This guy has built himself a nice little empire,

but at some point his last AppleII will die

or his boss will require code Surfcam 98 can't crunch (which is why they hired me).

He may be king of the world at that shop, but his skillset is a decade out of date and he's not worth a whole lot on the open market.

 

The moral of the story is...

for better or worse, the industry is evolving.

You must evolve with it, or it will be leave you behind.

[Programinator]

Dude,

 

Just trust us its better....WAY better. Everyone had the same thoughts as you when they first opened x. It was like computer culture shock for me.

 

Either just jump into x completely and you will learn it quick or do what i did......When there are slow times just open it up and do some simple jobs on it.

 

Before you know it you wont ever look for the v9 icon again.

 

Just do it!!!!

[CRFJim]

I agree 100% with you, and I want to learn as much as I can, both to keep myself current and to do my job better. Without sounding too stuck on myself, I have kept a "good enough is NOT good enough" attitude with all my work. I am always trying to be faster, more accurate and easier on tooling than I was yesterday. Since my boss is absolutely clueless on any CNC matters, I have had to struggle to get them to even consider the demo version of X, and now I have to show them it's better to get them to pony up and make the switch. Deep down inside, I know I WANT X, but I also know that I want to be as good at X as I am at V9, which may or may not be saying a whole lot! But I'll make it and I know I'll be a better programmer/machinist for the switch. I mean, I'm sure there were lots of P51 pilots who thought jet fighters were waste of time as well. And history has shown who was right there...

[Thee Rickster ™]

i started on X2 and because I am fluent in software

that changed there interface a few yrs before MC

I had no change to accept, just learn the new

software. Some training to get familiar with the

new software and away ya go.

 

Plus this Forum is guaranteed to help you with

any problems, you encounter.

 

I did not have issues trying the other softwares

once they switched. It was like trading in the

'71' Gremlin for a 2006 Lexus.

 

"Hey I can get used to this, in a snap"

[GoetzInd]

quote:

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He guarded his postion and files like the crown jewells and was a stone wall when you asked him for help. He had an entire closet full of

old AppleII's and spent his weekend prowlling

swap meets and garage sales looking for parts.

---

Funny story Gcode.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

CRFJim,

 

Most of us were skeptical about the change at first. Let me give you an example of how X2MR2 is better than V9 since you brought up the subject of the small monitor. I am using X2MR2 with a 22 inch monitor and a 18 inch monitor. I dock my operation manager and my level manager on the 18 inch screen and I have the entire 22 inch screen for graphics area and verify. Here's the best part. The level manager always stays open and I can automatically click on different levels and have entities appear or disapear without ever having to close the level manager. Also I have a 3D mouse along with my regular mouse that I can use to manipulate the CAD enviroment. These two features alone make programming much faster and easier. I don't think V9 supports a 3D mouse but I could be wrong about that. My boss was a huge V9 fan. He had to make the switch because we purchased a custom 5 axis post and it was made for version X2. We both struggled through learning X2MR2 together. Any time we got stuck this forum helped us out. Along the way my boss remained more skeptical than me about the advantages of X2MR2. Now just last week we were programming in the office and he looked over at me and said " I can see no reason to ever go back to version 9" My example above shows just a few advantages there are many more and you will realize this the more you use the new software.

[PeterM]

I too had a stressful time making the transition to X, but it was worth it.

 

Here is an example of how much quicker a simple part can be in X. My example is a hex bolt, face, mill hex, chamfer.

 

In V9, create a line. horizontal or vertical, rotate line around origin, modify, fillet, 6 corners, (I like a .003 default rad) Time approximately 1 minute.

 

In X create hex, enter hex dia, enter corner rad in drop down window, click origin done. Time, approximately 15 seconds.

 

Toolpath creation is nearly the same, but using the x+ setup sheet, and the import feature I can create a set up sheet in about a minute, and that alone saves me tons of time.

 

I could go on and on and I'm sure that many more examples could be given by others. Take the plunge, the waters fine.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Something else that makes X2 worth it... UP TO DATE TRANSLATORS!!!!!

 

It may not be important for everyone but I'll tell you, the speed with which other CAD sfoftwares put out new releases can make importing files a nightmare but CNC usually within a few weeks of say SolidWorks' new release will have a new one to handle the new files.

 

In my line of work being able to read in all the major CAD system's stuff is awesome.

 

BTW, at a MINIMUM Mastercam X is 25% faster at CAD creation.

[JNO]

quote:

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X, X2, X3-coming "soon"

 

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Got some inside info ??????

[g-codeguy]

Jim. Like you, I have been skeptical of X. I took the introductory course when it first came out. My remark afterwards to the reseller was, "I thought new versions were suppose to be an improvement. This looks like a step backwards." I only program lathes. I felt the mill section had been improved, but didn't see any improvement in lathes. This was the "Introductory Class" not a regular mill or lathe class.

 

We have had post processor problems that are not yet resolved so I have very little actual time on X even though we upgraded as soon as it came out. We had a guy from the reseller in our shop for a couple days of teaching after first spending a couple days working on the post processors. I can now see some improvements, but am still MUCH faster on v9.

 

CNC representive has asked that I PM him with the details, and he will work with our reseller to resolve them. Can't ask for better service than that.

 

Today is the first time in weeks that I have had some free time, and I have hopes of getting that PM sent.

 

I do have to agree with what has been said by a couple people here. Seat time is paramount. I personally look forward to the time we can start using X full time. It is the only way I will learn it. X is still very cumbersome for me.

 

Too bad I don't have MCX at home to practice with. (Too expensive for me!) I don't have the necessary time it would require me to program in X at work. Especially since I would also have to modify the post output on almost every job.

 

It is depressing to know we've had X since it first came out, and yet see everyone else way ahead of me in its use.

 

Too bad about your boss. At least mine realizes it is critical that we get X up and running correctly. Reseller has been scheduled for a couple more days of in-house work on our posts, and another couple days for refreshing our memories on X once they are fixed.

 

From what I've seen, it is going to take dedication on your part to get good on X. We have a couple posts that do work correctly, yet I still use v9 for jobs going on these machines. Not a good way to learn X.

[Storkman]

quote:

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Too bad I don't have MCX at home to practice with.

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Take your key home with you, that's what I do.

[CRFJim]

Yeah, I borrowed the demo disc and have been using it at home to get familiar with the controls, and I am getting better. The only problem with it is that you can't save anything, so I've been limiting my practice drawings to simple stuff I can do without interuption. Or is it "eruption"? Either way, I try to spend a little time on it daily to keep making baby steps of improvement. Once I get the hang of it, I'll hit the boss up to spring for the lastest version. The shop foreman acts like the cost is coming out of his paycheck, but my supervisor (his boss) is all for keeping up with technology. He's a great guy, very level-headed and a good listener. He'll probably get fired soon. Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's input, it has absolutely helped me adjust my attitude from reluctance to enthusiastic. Thanks! Jim

[PeterM]

Get ahold of Mastercam draft, do the construction there( minus solids of course) then open in Demo.