WCS Issues

[NeilJ]

Thanks, Trevor.

[NeilJ]

Chip, anytime improving CAD or the WCS in Mastercam is mentioned someone says Mastercam isn't a CAD application. At this point it doesn't look like any kind of reasonable discussion can be had without someone saying Mastercam isn't CATIA.... even if $650 SpaceClaim has some good features that Mastercam could very badly use.

 

http://www2.spaceclaim.com/stream/video.aspx?v=mfg_up.flv

 

Unfortunately this has been the case here for years.

[Jayson Kramer]

Well it comes down to the same thing I always say Neil, what Cad-cam system is the best?

 

Well there isn't one. the best system is of opinion as you show all of us what each different system has that MC does not.

The best system for each person is the one were you site at the table and have an option to pick a peace from each system that works best. (now the thought what works best:as for that person at that moment at that table)Now taking the tools they like and making this for example into Neil J's best system for him.

 

That is the best system.they all have some thing to offer ,some have more then others.

Mastercam will continue to grow and improve. But so will the others.

 

I know that I have been able to cut every thing to me over my 20 years of MC using this system and I am happy and to look forward to more improvements.

[NeilJ]

"Well it comes down to the same thing I always say Neil, what Cad-cam system is the best?"

 

Mastercam is what I use.

 

Can Mastercam be made better? Yes it can but it's hard to makes something better when someone insists over and over for years on end that Mastercam isn't CATIA and uses this as a lame excuse for not fixing basic functionality or making basic functionality better.

 

In the mean time, I'm enjoying using Rotate WCS and fully prepared to make the best of what's in Mastercam now. However, that doesn't mean I stop thinking about what could be made better in Mastercam.

[Jayson Kramer]

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However, that doesn't mean I stop thinking about what could be made better in Mastercam.

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I for sure agree with this thought as we all have them. or in some cases a wish list.

[NeilJ]

How about supporting my request for an Enhancement Forum where it's very easy to track what has been asked for?

[chip]

quote:

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Chip, anytime improving CAD or the WCS in Mastercam is mentioned someone says Mastercam isn't a CAD application. At this point it doesn't look like any kind of reasonable discussion can be had without someone saying Mastercam isn't CATIA.... even if $650 SpaceClaim has some good features that Mastercam could very badly use.

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Most people know that I'm all for constructive critisizim. I don't speak for mastercam or their designers.

 

Constructivly, I've tried to point out that Solidworks has some nice features. The way one starts a sketch with a plane. Bitchen!

 

One thing that sometimes takes me a moment to orient myself is when I try to Cplane Normal. In Solidworks, you could create that plane normal (sometimes it takes a couple of planes to get the normal your looking for). Then a Plane is visible that you are constructing on.

 

Mastercam has a tiny orientation and sometimes it takes a moment to obtain the proper Z. Not an issue. I started in Mastercam (before I was a solidworks user).

 

 

I don't think James was saying that as some sort of a cop out. Sometimes it's difficult to have constructive critizim when there's some off the wall POS spinning it to seem like Mastercam has a bug when the guy doesn't even know the software.

 

I mearly tried to point out what other comperable softwares offer. I'm still not sure if those are the issues or if Niel doesn't like the parameters?

 

Chip teh trying to help!

[Colin Gilchrist]

quote:

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This to me says a documentation problem exists on how to really best use the WCS. In my opinion this is just the tip of the iceburg on problems that can be corrected with Mastercam documentation. I'd like to see an e-Mastercam forum created solely for discussing enhancements and it would be nice if CNC Software tech writers and Mastercam book authors participated as I have a lot to say about Mastercam documentation.

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Neil,

 

I've found Mastercam's documentation to be some of the best around. From the Reference guide, to the interactive help menu that is available on every dialog box and ribbon bar.

 

What don't you understand about the documentation? I think the 30+ pages in the Mastercam X2 Reference guide (pages 206-239 in the document, not the pdf) explains the whole WCS/Cplane/Tplane concept pretty well. It even has step-by-step instructions for using the geometery, solid face, rotate, and dynamic options.

 

I'd encourage you to start a new thread on Help/Documentation and air any issues you have. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right place or don't know where to look... We can help with that.

 

If the documentation needs improving, I'm all for that. I actually work pretty closely with the technical writers at CNC on some of the documentation issues, including the newly updated X3 post guide, which should be out shortly.

 

I'm a pretty big fan of the help system, being mostly self-taught in Mastercam with a big portion of that knowledge coming from reading the help file.

 

Do you know how to use the 'Field definitions' tab in the help menu, and that it is command specific? This is one of the first tools I teach new students of mine when they are first learning Mastercam. It is a huge help to get a description of every parameter, drop-down menu, check box, and radio button in the Mastercam interface.

 

Reading the help menu, no not just reading, comprehending the information in the help menu is one of the best ways to learn Mastercam.

 

There is no magic tutorial, book, or video that can explain every detail of how to use Mastercam. At some point, you have to want to learn new methods or tricks. That is part of the reason this forum exists. That being said, it should not be considered a replacement for doing your part and reading the documentation that is already provided, and is actually pretty complete.

 

Take the PDF home on the weekend and try reading through various sections where you have questions. Get a Demo disk from your reseller so you can try out new toolpaths or other tools at home. Too busy? Sorry, there is no help entry for that...

[Hardmill]

quote:

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What don't you understand about the documentation? I think the 30+ pages in the Mastercam X2 Reference guide (pages 206-239 in the document, not the pdf) explains the whole WCS/Cplane/Tplane concept pretty well.

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Perhaps a new/or secondary format is in order.

 

 

 

PEACE

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Yes it can but it's hard to makes something better when someone insists over and over for years on end that Mastercam isn't CATIA and uses this as a lame excuse for not fixing basic functionality or making basic functionality better...

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You hear what you want to hear Jon. I prefer to air most of my issues with CNC at [email protected] so I can include screen shots, illustrations, etc... easier to do in an e-mail than here.

 

For the life of me Jon, I cant see why you come here when behind all of our proverbial backs you call just about everyone (even the ones that either are helping you out now or have helped you in the past) in here "@$$holes", "clique idiots". I just can't figure it out. Either you have turrets syndrome or.... I don't know what. But you are NEVER about improving something Jon, you are about floating your buzzwords so you can sound like someone that knows what they are talking about only so you can make your point. You ask a question because you have an agenda. You ask for improvements because you have an agenda, and the agenda is not improvement, the agenda seems to be for the software to make up for YOUR lack of effort to learn the software. So why don't you go back to wherever you came from (pushing brooms in Arizona), or better yet, start your own company JBTech!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

What NeilJ, errrrrr Jon thinks about this forum

 

Not that it matters what he thinks because really in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter one iota... BUT, what does matter is that he says what he says and comes in here expecting help. That's what matters and it's TOTAL

[Zoober]

quote:

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Someone might say the reason it didn't sink in is because I'm a complete moron.

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That someone would be me.....

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You said it, we thought it.

[Chris Rizzo]

oh boy

 

quote:

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This is the kind of functionality that the e-Mastercam clique of idiots (John Paris, James Meyette, Matt Finley (Rekd), kunfuzed, hardmill, dragracer1951/ PBMW, Robert Brunson, Rickster, g-code, etc.) think is useless and not necessary despite several posters pointing out how valuable this functionality really is on the e-Mastercam forum. With this kind of clique mentality is it any wonder that CNC Software doesn’t feel the pressure to add badly needed functionality that is missing in Mastercam?

 

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I've built a rather successful business with the gracious technical assistance and wisdom of all of those folks.

 

you?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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I've built a rather successful business with the gracious technical assistance and wisdom of all of those folks.

 

you?

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:smack:

[NeilJ]

"Constructivly, I've tried to point out that Solidworks has some nice features. The way one starts a sketch with a plane. Bitchen!"

 

It's even better when you don't get thrown in a room (sketch mode) and can just start sketching.

 

There are some products that are completely modeless and don't suffer from the problems that a parametric-history based modeler does. Here is a link to videos showing how a product like this works:

 

http://tinyurl.com/6hhxug

 

A lot of the ideas in this product would be very helpful in Mastercam.

[Zoober]

That's what some don't (or won't) understand, Chris.

I can only speak for myself here, but I think most of us actually enjoy helping others succeed.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I do as well Robert. Many have made me who I am in this trade. THE LAST thing I'm going to do is keep the knowledge freely given me to myself.

 

If that makes me an "@$$hole" or a "clique idiot", so be it.

 

JM2C

[NeilJ]

Colin,

 

"I've found Mastercam's documentation to be some of the best around."

 

It could be a lot better and someone you know agrees with what I have to say on this.

 

http://tinyurl.com/6k42mx

 

"What don't you understand about the documentation?"

 

Why it's not based on extensive tutorials, which is the way many people including myself learn best.

 

"I think the 30+ pages in the Mastercam X2 Reference guide (pages 206-239 in the document, not the pdf) explains the whole WCS/Cplane/Tplane concept pretty well."

 

I don't and apparently many others don't either.

 

"If the documentation needs improving, I'm all for that."

 

It badly needs improving. I think the best place to do that isn't in a general forum and instead should be in an e-Mastercam Enhancements Forum free from the useless personal nonsense we see posted in this thread.

 

"Do you know how to use the 'Field definitions' tab in the help menu, and that it is command specific?"

 

Sure do. Use it all the time. Does it do a good job of explaining things like what say Along Overlap and Across Overlap for Face Milling really do... in my opinion the answer would be no.

 

"Reading the help menu, no not just reading, comprehending the information in the help menu is one of the best ways to learn Mastercam."

 

I don't agree. That's like trying to learn machining by reading a book. In my opinion, the best way to learn machining is hands on. I believe the same thing applies to learning Mastercam. You might be surprised to learn how many people don't agree with you:

 

http://tinyurl.com/6jmy6x

[Colin Gilchrist]

What is it about the along and across overlap descriptions you find confusing? I just looked in the field defintions and it seems pretty straight forward to me:

 

quote:

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Across Overlap

 

Sets the amount that the tool overlaps the stock perpendicular to the roughing angle. Enter the across overlap as a percentage of the tool diameter or as an absolute distance. Not available if you select the One pass cutting method.

 

Along overlap

 

Sets the amount that the tool overlaps th stock parallel to the roughing angle. Enter the along overlap as a percentage of the tool diameter or as an absolute distance. This value must be greater than or equal to the across overlap.

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[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Colin,

 

"I've found Mastercam's documentation to be some of the best around."

 

It could be a lot better and someone you know agrees with what I have to say on this.

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So, let me ask you this, when whas the last time you sent a constructive suggestion to the documentation department at CNC??? In case you were wondering Jon, this place IS NOT CNC Software. It is not run by CNC Software, it is not always trolled by CNC. Though some employees of CNC do poke in from time to time, if something is pressing, going through the proper channels (i.e [email protected] with an appropriate title/subject so that it gets routed to the correct department) IS THE BEST way to address issues. That's no secret. You treat this place like it's CNC. It's not.

 

quote:

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...Why it's not based on extensive tutorials, which is the way many people including myself learn best....

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So what you're saying is that CNC should produce documentation for each of the 3 or 4 documented learning styles??? Or just yours???

[Eeyore-nonhuman forum member]

nEILj .

Do you know what the main difference between you and me ?

I use Mastercam and for using it I learn it .

For an expert like you are and the as$hole like me it is rather strange you do not Know wcs BASIC THINGS .

It is mentioned lots of times in many sources starting from Mastercam help .

At least for me it seems so .

And even if it is not ,you have a dealer .

The small amount of questions I have not answered

my dealer always gives me a hand .

But knowing you personally for a long time and knowing my dealer I doubt he would ever help you .

Do you know why ?

 

As for you ,you are stupid ,lazy ,rude and dumb person ,making ugly attemps to instigate some sort of scandal over nothing ,like you have done thousand times in different Forums .

Vegetating self-ego ?

 

Do you want some quotes here ?

 

And the most important and the last thing - your

total lack of style .

You have no sense of humor .

That`s differs you from most of humans here and brings you closer to us - non-humans ,donkeys ,xxxx and xxxx .

 

My best regards

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Looks like words with more than 3 syllables may be a problem for Jon.

[NeilJ]

Colin, were you going to address the rest of my response to your post where I presented evidence that many others don't agree with your opinion(s) on Mastercam's help? Does it surprise you how many people don't and who some of these people are?

 

If you really want to make Mastercam help better and reach more users may I suggest that getting feedback from new users would be very valuable. Most long time users know the workarounds and idiosyncrasies of Mastercam. An example of what I mean would be something like Mastercam's Screen Combine.

 

There is a lot of info in the links I posted that should answer what the problem is. Did you take the time to read what’s in those links?

 

Here is another link to what I guess is a former Mastercam user. While I don't agree with most of what he says he does have some good points when it comes to Mastercam and Mastercam help. Unfortunately you have to wade through a lot of B.S. to get to some of his valid points.

 

http://www.onecncwest.com/users/user_dave_reynolds.htm

 

I've used this product. I've labeled it as crapware because that's what I feel it is. The sad part is this company is capitalizing on problems that others and I say exist and that I feel you don't recognize. Don't take that the wrong way. While I many not agree with you I have always felt you are one of the most helpful people on this forum and I'm very appreciative of your help. If your help was presented in a more visual way like say Jayson Kramer does it would be even more helpful to me.

 

Have you ever considered using a product like this to get your points across in a more visual manner?

 

http://www.jingproject.com/

[Hardmill]

quote:

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with more than 3 syllables may be a problem for Jon.

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Thats where the color by numbers come in.

Am I brillant or what ??

 

 

PEACE