Organizing setup sheets

[?Mark]

I'm at a new place where they do their setup sheets certain way. Due to a major slow down in work (and despite some major layoffs) I have a time to "try" to improve on how setup info is generated, saved and updated.

I'm interested to see how the shops that switch the same jobs between several different machines deal with the setup sheets. How is the info updated and saved with the feedback from machinists and tool crib.

At this time all the info related to a job is at the top of nc file before the program call. If this job is posted for any other machine the info has to be copied manually.

How is it done in big shops with several programmers and a multitude of machines?

As always any suggestions are appreciated.

[connormac]

Program the job. Use a vb script to post for all the machines. All the machines have a tool list at the first of the program. Then the set up sheet will be the same no matter what. I even have our set up sheets where it has the search numbers for the different machines. The set up sheets have a place for notes for each tool,the G54,g55,g56,g57 position, Z offset position for each tool. I asked a long time ago about different machines and most said they programmed to the slowest machine then you would know it would work on any machine. HTH

 

Connormac

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You could always do some math in your posts to program for your best machine then have feed reductions in the other posts.

[?Mark]

Thanks for sugestions.

Another question, how do you structure your folders with all those files?

Currently they have separate mc files for every operation ( ) in one directory and all nc files in another. I'm thinking that having a separate folder for each job where we can dump all related mc nc and setup files could work better.

What are your thought?

Thanks!

[iowajim62]

quote:

---

Another question, how do you structure your folders with all those files?

---

My favorite folder method,

 

code:

---

Customer 1

Part#1

Rev 1

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Rev 2

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Part#2

Rev 1

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Rev 2

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Customer 2

Part#1

Rev 1

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Rev 2

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Part#2

Rev 1

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

Rev 2

MC (contains MC source files)

Unproven (contains unproven NC files)

Proven (contains proven NC files from machine)

Docs (contains setup sheets,tool drawings,etc)

---

File naming like this,

Part#-Rev-Op-Machine by number

 

MC Source Files

 

12345-REV-A-OP10-VM1.MCX

12345-REV-A-OP20-VM1.MCX

12345-REV-A-OP30-VM1.MCX

 

12345-REV-A-OP10-HM12.MCX

12345-REV-A-OP20-HM12.MCX

12345-REV-A-OP30-HM12.MCX

 

NC Files

 

12345-REV-A-OP10-VM1.NC

12345-REV-A-OP20-VM1.NC

12345-REV-A-OP30-VM1.NC

 

12345-REV-A-OP10-HM12.NC

12345-REV-A-OP20-HM12.NC

12345-REV-A-OP30-HM12.NC

 

Doc Files

 

12345-REV-A-OP10-VM1.DOC

12345-REV-A-OP20-VM1.DOC

12345-REV-A-OP30-VM1.DOC

 

12345-REV-A-OP10-HM12.DOC

12345-REV-A-OP20-HM12.DOC

12345-REV-A-OP30-HM12.DOC

 

Just one of many ways to do it.

[elraiis]

hi

i create folders in fact and separate the folders names based on what it contains.. PDF FILES, PROE, MC FILES, NC FILES (IF YOU SAVE THOSE).. and so on.

peace

[3R!< W3NG3R]

Every one of our customers have their own file, and then every job has a file in that file.

 

I couldn't imagine looking through over 5000 files to find one. I like to be able to go directly to the file needed.

 

Also, everything related to the job goes in the folder (STL, setup sheet, originals from customer, PDF etc...)

 

Organization is key IMO.

[?Mark]

Jimmy,

I'm leaning your way, if hopefully they'll let me reorganize our system a little...

What do you do with proven and edited files that come back to you, but for which you can't really adjust the mc file to incorporate the changes ?

 

Thanks all

[?Mark]

quote:

---

Also, everything related to the job goes in the folder (STL, setup sheet, originals from customer, PDF etc...)

 

Organization is key IMO.

---

+ 1 (or + us deficit... )

[iowajim62]

Mark,

quote:

---

What do you do with proven and edited files that come back to you, but for which you can't really adjust the mc file to incorporate the changes ?

---

If my program is that bad I will have fixed it and sent it back out to run and get proven. Ideally a perfect posted program goes out and gets run and bought off by QA. Then the program is saved with whatever the setup guys have changed. Typically they want to make some little edit to say they fixed it for you. I let these little changes stand because it gives them a sense of power and ownership. Having a happy team is alot easier than fighting with them over every little thing. Empowering the guys on the floor with this authority leads them to wanting to take on more responsibility and helping things run more efficiently and organized. Don't get me wrong though there are limits, I won't stand for them to take out passes or depths of cut on a tool or to stand there and edit the program so that drilling and tapping run the way they want. I explain to them that changes of that magnitude will require getting engineering involved since you are wanting to change the process. This generally stops most of that nonsense since that means somebody from the "Office" is going to be coming out to "their" world and sticking there nose in. Any worse than that and its time to get management involved.

 

Bottom line, post good programs for the guys on the floor and they will love to run your stuff because they have gained confidence and respect for your abilities.

[?Mark]

quote:

---

If my program is that bad

---

LOL

No, my programs are a "post and go" quality but I don't do lathes and we get a lot of those coming back with some crazy changes. I'm thinking avoiding using canned cycles could simplify things a lot here, but since I'm new I don't want to step on too many toes at once...

[crazy^millman]

Here from the procedure we use here:

 

PROCEDURE FOR MAKING CAM FOLDERS AND PROGRAMS FOR NC CREATION.

 

1:PROGRAMMER IS REQUIRED TO MAKE A FOLDER NUMBER USING THE

PROLOG LOCATED ON (H:NC). IN THE PROGLOG PUT IN THE PART

NUMBER, DASH NUMBER, REVISION, MODEL NAME AND NUMBER, NAME

OF PART, CUSTOMER, AND PROGRAMMER.

LOG # PART NUMBER # DASH # REV: PART DESCRIPTION CUSTOMER PROGRAMMER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

944 17P3A2825 -501 n/c Support, Cradle Assy, Aft-LairCM BOEING RON BRANCH

 

2:PROGRAMMER IS REQUIRED TO MAKE FOLDER IN FOLDER CALLED CNC

LOCATED ON WORKSTATION7. INSIDE THE CNC FOLDER THERE ARE

SUBFOLDERS FOR EACH CUSTOMER; IN THAT SUB FOLDER THEY ARE

REQUIRED TO CREATE A FOLDER USING THE LAST 4 DIGITS OF THE

PART NUMBER. INSIDE THAT FOLDER MAKE FOLDER FOR DASH NUMBER

IF APPLICABLE.

MAKE 3 FOLDERS;

A) 1ST FOLDER WILL BE NAMED ORIGINAL MODEL (IF SUPPLIED

BY CUSTOMER WILL BE COPY OF ORIGINAL. IF MADE BY

PROGRAMMING WILL BE CHECKED BY EITHER ANOTHER

PROGRAMMER, SOMEONE FROM INSPECTION OR THE

SHOP FOREMAN.)

2ND FOLDER WILL BE NAMED MFG(ALL PROGRAMMING, SET-UP

SHEETS, OPERATION SHEETS WILL BE INSIDE THIS FOLDER.)

C) 3RD FOLDER WILL BE NAMED INSPECTION(COPY OF ORIGNAL

MODEL AND ALL CMM PROGRAMS, REPORTS, OPERATION SHEETS,

AND DRAWINGS REQUIRED BY INSPECTION.)

EXAMPLES: C:CNCSMITHS1234

C:CNCSMITHS1234-101MFG

C:CNCSMITHS1234-103INSPECTION

C:CNCSMITHS1234-101ORIGNAL MODEL

 

3:WHEN THE PROGRAMMER IS CREATING CAM AND NC PROGRAMS,

SET-UP SHEETS, AND TOOL LISTS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO USE THE

3 DIGIT PROLOG NUMBER AND THE CORRESPONDING OPERATION

NUMBER BEING PROGRAMMED TO ON THE TRAVELER AS WELL USE THE

CORRECT LETTER TO PRECEDE THE CAM AND NC PROGRAMS

DEPENDING ON THE MACHINE BEING PROGRAMED FOR. ALL

PROGRAMMERS HAVE ACCESS TO JOB BOSS IN WHICH TO LOOK UP THE

CORRECT OPERATION SEQUENCE NUMBERS.

(REFER TO MACHINE LETTER.DOC FOR LETTERS TO USE FOR EACH MACHINE.)

EXAMPLE: LK91540

(LK = OKUMA LATHE 915 = PROLOG NUMBER 40 = TRAVELER

OPERATION SEQUENCE)

 

Then for our Machines:

 

MACHINE LETTERS TO PRECEDE NC PROGRAMS:

 

H = MAZAK H630 HORZIONTAL MILLING CENTER

 

M = MIGHTY SEIKI, YAMA SEIKI MILLING CENTER

 

A = AMURA SEIKI VTC

 

K = OKUMA MILLING CENTER

 

E = INTEGREX MILLING & TURNING CENTER

 

Q = QUICK TURN MILLING & TURNING CENTER

 

LK = OKUMA TURNING CENTER

 

LV = VIPER TURNING CENTER

 

Then on the NC side of things we have a Proven-NC folder and an Un-Proven Folder. In each of those folders we have CNC-Mills,CNC-Lathes, and Mill-Turns. Then inside of those Folders we have the Machines that go in each one.

 

Our method is I program the part. I make a Set-up Sheet using Mastercam Solids and Solid layout. I make it as close to what they will see on the machine as possible. For the lathes we bring a solid of the chuck in the jaws. We define our rough stock. We then do a solid Layout. We also have a Title Block that has the Name of the Original Model, The Date it was made, Who it was made by, Checked by Date and Place for who checked it. We have a Operation Place using our process, We have a Sheet number, We have a Program Revision Place, We have a Description of the operation being preformed place. We have a place for the part number, We have a place for the part Rev. On the lathe Set-up sheets we even go as far as putting a picture of the tool out of Mastercam how it will need ot be in the machine. It is a custom tool We will do a Print of that tool explaining everything. The Set-up sheet will have where the Z0 is How much to stick out of the Chuck, How much to hold in the chuck. We put enough information on the Set-Up sheet that anyone should be able to set-up even if the programmer is never seen or heard from again.

 

Out mill set-up sheet will have the same process. A solid is made up of the Rough stock. If it is being used in a 4th axis the 4th axis Solid Model is brought in, or if it needs a vice, tombstone, or what ever. We make solids of the part through operations. So Operation one, two, three, to 14 will have a solid representing that part from the last operation. An advantage of this is the Solid layout ability we can make per operation Set-up Sheet for the Shop Floor and as well for inspection. Also by suing Verisurf and our Programmable CMM we can bring that operation into Verisurf and make a CMM program to check that operation.

 

We print a copy of the 1st page of the program on the server. This for the mills has a tool list, The header has all the information related to the part in the header of the program. By using Cimco we get the Exact file location on the server so we avoid I do not know where it is.

 

The Tool list is an excel spread sheet. IT again has everything related to the part just like our Title Block for set-up Sheets. The too list has a place for notes. The tool list has the tool holder, Insert along with grade and other things that will be needed to set the tools up correctly. LOC, OAL, Corner Radius, and ETC.....

At the bottom there is a place for notes.

 

The 4th page we make is a General Notes page. By having this and putting this in our process we can have a place that is somewhat controlled meeting all AS-9100 requirements and MBD requirements.

 

It seems like a lot of work and some days it does have you pulling you hair out, But I am only there 3 days a week and I have been training someone who is sharp so between us 2 we keep 17 machines programmed and ready to run for 2 shifts. Does help we have repeat work.

 

Hope that gives you some ideas and helps you out.

[?Mark]

Thanks for sharing Ron.

I actually read your post twice and your process might be extensive but shouldn't be too hard to implement. We are also ISO 9001-2000 and AS9100 aerospace shop so similar setup should make a lot of sense for us as well.

Thanks