Work NC

[cunder]

Has any one had experience with Work NC?

Thoughts? Comments? Remarks?

 

scscoi.com

 

I was asked to review the web site.

[Guest]

Looked at it, looks "good" really didn't see the need to go any further when I found out 5 axis is not done.

[crazy^millman]

John you should look deeper seems they do.

 

Linky:

[gaijin_2007]

Not sure when you last looked at WorkNC but it certainly can do 5-axis machining.

Having said that though, personally I wouldn't touch it.

Like Cimatron, Sescoi are in the doo-doo with the owner apparently making it known that he's open to offers.

A downward trend in development spend means they're not up on the high-end systems like PowerMILL with poor tools for toolpath editing, boundary and geometry creation.

It's *old* software, it doesn't even support multi-core processing.

[Guest]

quote:

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Not sure when you last looked at WorkNC but it certainly can do 5-axis machining.

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Last year, at that point they could not and sales was quite upfront about it

[Thee Rickster ™]

3-d paths are brilliant.

I used a demo for a month, very likable software

but a little pricey. didn't find the need to do

much tool path editing with it , like MC.

[gaijin_2007]

For straight 3-axis toolpaths I never found the need to do much editing with PowerMILL either but in 5-axis you can select parts of a toolpath, edit the tool-axis for that particular region and apply a blend to smooth out the different axis configurations.

It gives you a lot of control on exactly what a 5-axis toolpath is going to do.

And I've never seen anything else able to do that.

 

Anyway, apologies to the OP for the hijack.

[Guest SAIPEM]

quote:

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Not sure when you last looked at WorkNC but it certainly can do 5-axis machining.

Having said that though, personally I wouldn't touch it.

Like Cimatron, Sescoi are in the doo-doo with the owner apparently making it known that he's open to offers.

A downward trend in development spend means they're not up on the high-end systems like PowerMILL with poor tools for toolpath editing, boundary and geometry creation.

It's *old* software, it doesn't even support multi-core processing.

---

There will be several CAM companies closing their doors in the near future.

Mastercam isn't one of them.

[j-squared]

quote:

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Like Cimatron, Sescoi are in the doo-doo with the owner apparently making it known that he's open to offers.

A downward trend in development spend means they're not up on the high-end systems like PowerMILL with poor tools for toolpath editing, boundary and geometry creation.

It's *old* software, it doesn't even support multi-core processing.

---

How exactly do you know they are open to offers? I thought they were a private company.

Also, they do, or announced, multi threading. Saw that release on MCADcafe or seomthing. http://www.sescoi.com/index.php?id=pr&pr=industrie2010&L=7

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Privately held companies ARE the most suceptible to purchase especially in a tough economy.

[gcode]

quote:

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There will be several CAM companies closing their doors in the near future.

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OK I'll bite.. who ?? Delcam??

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I would not venture Delcam. I'd guess software out of the Top 10 would be the most vulnerable. Not enough revenue and banks tightening their lending. But just a guess.

[gaijin_2007]

No, certainly not Delcam. Have you seen their financials?

They're in better condition than anyone in the CAM market right now having overtaken PTC to be ranked the 3rd largest CAM vendor behind Dassault and Siemens.

 

Interestingly enough, some of the data I've seen puts CNC outside of the top 10 based on revenue and smaller in revenue than a lot of their competition.

 

My personal opinion on some of the companies that will be struggling going forward.

 

1. OpenMind (drop in sales of 27% in 2009)

2. Cimatron and Gibbs (always struggling, Cimatron can't seem to stay solvent).

3. WorkNC (not enough development and investment to keep their user base happy).

 

Add to that SurfCAM, SmartCAM and all the other minor CAM guys who just don't have enough going for them to make a bigger fish want to buy them or enough development going in to the product to keep it competitive.

 

I take a close interest in the CADCAM market and subscribe to a number of industry newsletters/reports as I want to make sure that any investment is made into the right type of organization.

[SydwazShawn]

I will tell you one thing, Work Nc and Open mind Hypermill have the best youtube videos to date!

 

The billet MX hemet with Hypermill, and the Samurai helmet with Work Nc!

 

AWSOME stuff...

[Guest SAIPEM]

You can add VX to the top of the list.

 

They have ZERO US market share per CIMDATA.

They have had 2 massive layoffs in the past year and are down to a skeleton crew.

They sell on-line only at this point.

SNK actually owns them.

 

The problem for VX is that the software is at least a decade behind everyone else in CAM.

The 3D machining is excellent but for 2D it's a painful experience.

You can also add to that the fact that Jon Banquer has now "graced" their forum with his presence.

 

Surfcam, Cimatron are also distinct possibilities.

 

Times change.

Let's not forget, at one time Expedite 3-D was a major system.

[Bruce Caulley]

I may be wrong, but I swear I saw a 5axis surfacing video done in workNC about 4 years ago???

 

Bruce

[j-squared]

quote:

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Privately held companies ARE the most suceptible to purchase especially in a tough economy.

---

But that didn't answer or address the question, how he knows they are up for sale. I'm guessing he's guessing.

 

Cimatron bought out Gibbs a few years ago (overpaid imho) - I don't think they are in immediate danger. Cimatron's financials are easier to digest, as they are a publicly held company.

[Thad]

quote:

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Cimatron bought out Gibbs a few years ago (overpaid imho)

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Unless Cimatron won Gibbs by filling out an online questionnaire on Cimatron's documentation....they paid too much.

 

Thad

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Interestingly enough, some of the data I've seen puts CNC outside of the top 10 based on revenue...

---

To even put put CNC in the same class as CATIA, UG, and PTC as far as revenue goes...

 

The "percentage of marketshare increase" number is more than a bit deceptive. Say XYZ CADCAM sells 5 seats last year and they sell 40 seats this year.... that's an 800% increase right? LOL Yeah, they are big time now. ROFL

 

CATIA, UG, and Pro/E software when new is often 3x the cost of MC. Many of the others are quite a bit mre also. Their maintenance costs are substantially higher than MC's as well.

 

Just sayin' you gotta REALLY look at what the numbers are saying.

[Watcher]

quote:

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I may be wrong, but I swear I saw a 5axis surfacing video done in workNC about 4 years ago???

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I could swear I did it too...

[gaijin_2007]

To answer the question (sorry I missed it), I was told by a business contact of mine in France who was told by a WorkNC employee.

 

Cimatron paid $10m for GibbsCAM, $5m cash and $5m shares in Cimatron to Bill Gibbs.

Which seeing as Cimatron was de-listed from the stock exchange for some of last year as their share price consistently traded under $1 must make Bill pretty pissed.

Their latest results show that the combined revenue from both companies is now less than what it was for Cimatron alone before the purchase.

So one of them (or both) is in freefall and the only winner is likely to be Bill Gibbs as he has $5m sitting in the bank.

 

Also, I didn't mean "fastest growing market share" or some other BS chart but pure revenue based on sales, as that is what enables companies to invest in developing their product.

 

Top 3 - revenue

1. Dassault

2. Siemens

3. Delcam

 

Top 3 - number of CAM developers

1. Delcam

2. Dassault

3. Siemens

 

Catia, UG and Pro/E are expensive both in initial purchase and maintenance (Tebis and OpenMind too) but I've found Delcam and others to be on a par with MC when it comes to pricing on purchase and maintenance.

 

I'm worried I'm treading on thin ice discussing pricing as I know it's frowned upon so I'd rather say no more on the subject.

 

But I agree, the data needs looking at carefully.

Or is that what they call marketing?

LOL.

[gcode]

quote:

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I'm worried I'm treading on thin ice discussing pricing as I know it's frowned upon so I'd rather say no more on the subject.

---

you're OK IMO.. we're speaking in general terms

and not revealing hard numbers.

[Guest SAIPEM]

quote:

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Cimatron paid $10m for GibbsCAM, $5m cash and $5m shares in Cimatron to Bill Gibbs.

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Actually, Bill Gibbs received $5 million in cash and 1.5 million Cimatron shares.

Given the Cimatron Market Cap at the time of the sale, it was estimated at approximately $5 million.

 

Given that the Cimatron Market Cap is now only 15.44M, his shares are worth MUCH less.

That fact, along with the fact that Cimatron is

losing money hand over fist, makes it quite possible, some analysts would say likely, that Cimatron will go xxxx up.

 

You'd be better off driving down the 405 with the window open and throwing your money away than investing in Cimatron as either a stock holder or customer.

Your return would be better on the 405.

The wind would blow some of your money back in your window.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

GIbbs is going down like a cheap hooker... hard and fast. LOL!!!