Information form for a job.

[crazy^millman]

Guys I am finding more and more that some people make to many assumptions about what is important information and what is not important information when looking at work to do in their shop. The trend I am seeing with companies is they keeping looking for the magic button when it comes to getting work done. They think a programmer should be able to think it do a couple clicks of the mouse and here is your bullet proof program.

 

Know I working on a check list of what I consider important information to give to bosses so they can think about what it really takes to make a part. Here are some of the things I have put together so far and if you think of anything please add.

 

#1 Does it fit in any of our machines?

#2 What are the sizes of the material we need to machine this part?

#2a Does the job have special excess material requirements to make the part out of?

#2b Does the job call out for grain direction?

#2c Has excess material for holding the part been considered? (IE Lathe might need part off stock, Mill Might need excess to hold in Vice, Can staggering parts save material, and etc....?

#3 What is the Material the part will be made out of?

#3a Is the material Billet or a forging?

#3b Is the material readily available? (IE, we can get it within the promised delivery date?

#3c Do we have to supply certification of material? (Always assume you do!!!!)

#4 Which of the machine(s) we have will the job be put on?

#4a Does that machine have a large enough tool capacity to run that job?

#4b Does that machine have probing capabilities?

#4c Does that machine require a button pusher or a Programmer to set the job up?

#4d Does the machine have special requirements for tool holders?

#4e Does the machine have through the spindle coolant?

#4f Do we have existing tooling for that machine we can use for this job, (IE Tombstone, Vice Jaws, Chuck Jaws, Extended holder, etc)

#5 Does this part have any special outside processing requirements?

#5a Does this part have any special heat treat requirements?

#5a1 Does it require certain cross sectional requirments for heat treat?

#5a2 Does it require a restraining fixture for heat treat?

#5a3 Do we fully understand the heat treat process called out? (Copper Cald, Vacuum, Inert Gas Atmosphere, Carbonization, etc.....)

#5b Anodize, Special coating, Teflon, Chrome,

#5c Assembly of components?

 

 

Well I got more, but wanted to see what others feedback on this are. If no one responds then I will assume I live in a Vacuum and everyone else works for people who never have a problem quoting or getting jobs for your shops and you guys do have the easy button on your desk that you hit when they give you the jobs to do.

[mayday]

Most of what you list Ron is channeled thru dept. here at work. Process engineers, tooling engineers, quality, Production control, Mfg managers, ect.

our job as Programmers only have to be concerned with tooling requirments. besides the part programs

[crazy^millman]

I have seen that in bigger companies, but in smaller companies I see it go through the programmer today more than it has in the past.

[nine blue]

Could not agree more with your opening statement.

 

My work experience at several large companies over the past 25 years as a machinist/programmer has been that all the items on your check list are for the most part ignored until the truck backs up to the factory dock and drops its load of material which may or may not be the right size, specification, heat treat etc....

 

I have experienced my share of "efficiency audits" and "time studies" which always fail to produce the desired results.

 

I have seen companies lose hundreds of thousands of dollars on jobs just because they ignore many of the items on your list.

 

I can assure you that you do not live in vacuum because I see everyday that the, "magic button solution" as you described it, is becoming the industry standard.

 

Nice check list. Should be required reading for all involved the the production process. Especially like #2c. It seems that management always get bit by that one.

[Newbeeee™]

I couldn't agree more with you're opening paragraph.

A couple of others:-

Is there any special gauging requirements?

Is there capacity (hours) available on the machine to make the job?

Is the lead-time acceptable/do-able?

[William Grizwald]

As others have said, some shops have the planning dept or person for this but it appears you provide the complete shop floor docs.

 

Are there over 20 employees? I pick that number as a good time to think of dedicated shop floor travelers. To meld all that info with the programming docs will be tough to maintain.

 

The upside to adding such a package is they can really help with scheduling lead times. The one brand that comes to mind that I used in the past that is a leader is JobBoss. There are several others that may be a lot cheaper. Ask around. Maybe someones done a custom using a database? The trick is to find one that does not run your life.

 

--

Bill

[crazy^millman]

William at my 3 day a week job we use Job Boss. It is my contracting job where people are needing help. I am thinking about putting this together in an Excel spreadsheet. I had a customer couple years ago that had this form that was rocking, but I do not plagiarize people and don't have a copy any more so looking to create something they can use to help those that might need it as I come across them.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

The trend I am seeing with companies is they keeping looking for the magic button when it comes to getting work done.

---

That's because there are software companies telling them there is a magic button that gets work done for them. :cough: FBM :cough: GSSL :cough STEP :cough:

[Tim Johnson]

5d. Will the part need separate roughing and finishing processes?

5e. Will the part need special deburring/cleaning processes?

6a. Does the part require special tooling?

6b. How long will it take to get the tooling?

[William Grizwald]

Most shops I've seen (large & small) have a short production meeting once a week involving the main parties. Some call it "contract review". It's there you could present the worksheet. At a minimum items 1-4 should be worked out by the owner (as part of the quoting process) prior to even getting the job.

 

I hate it when they'd assume the stock size and then I'm stuck with multiple setups because they didn't allow for tooling tabs. That's why I say get them to work it out up front (with you of coarse). It might inspire them to maybe create some sort of in-house spreadsheet for each job.

 

I think all the items you listed are pretty valid and should be thought of during the quotation process. They would then be confirmed at the production meeting (very short meeting... I hate meetings...)

 

--

Bill

[Kevangel]

Are any of our machines accurate enough for the job?

[DavidB]

Does the part need 5-axis simultaneos?

Tolerances and surface finish requirements?

[Mr. Wizzard]

I could not agree more with you guys! Why is it that 99% of the resposibility of producing a part is that of the programmer and, yet, we are the last ones to find out about a new job coming thru?

[Mr. Wizzard]

****** Can all features called out on the print be checked with current QC instruments?

[robh]

talk w/ the programmer to see if it's a good job for the machines you have, ie not a job better done w/ wire, edm, water jet,laser cutter,etc. if you don't have them.

[Mike-T]

"Why is it that 99% of the resposibility of producing a part is that of the programmer"

Because the work gravitates to the people that can do !!

Are there Cmm and or smartscope programs needed ?

Does there need to be capibility studies done ?

gage r&r's ?

supporting documentation ?

[McLaren]

+1 to all of the above!!

[Cad-Camr]

Its funny how people in the "planning department" dont consider the manufacturing process when they define the required material size. The job takes longer with added operations. They look good for saving money on the stock and manufacturing looks bad for taking to long. I would rather do it all myself.

[alanu23]

Is the programmer going to have to stay up for 36 straight to pull it off in time? Or.. Does the programmer already have so much scat to do that he can't even see straight as it is. "easy button" I've been hearing that for a long time.. Still have yet to find it.

[Verndog]

#1 What is the closest tolerance on the part, and what special fixturing, tools or process is involved to hold it.

 

If you dont put that first...everything else changes (or can).

[Joels]

All are great replies but i have seen alot of times they want to machine parts on machines that don't have the resolution to machine them. Kevin said it above. Or fixturing, while trying to hold .0005 straightness on 2 holes, lift up the fixture put it down and make the second hole straight to the other one within .0005

 

Ha Ha I see it all the time.

[John@WMM]

#2c Has excess material for holding the part been considered? (IE Lathe might need part off stock, Mill Might need excess to hold in Vice, Can staggering parts save material, and etc....?

 

 

This is a big deal in our wire edm machines. We profile cut parts from blanchard ground bar stock all the time. "management" will wonder why I want an extra lenght of 2" for the material. Well you have to hold on to something...

[ciro]

Educate your management and planning teams ASAP. You want them on your side! Go to http://www.mmsonline.com/ and put together a presentation for them. Everything for any size company is there. It sounds like a good ERP software will be usefull for management and planning. Nice check list, developing a programming check list is key. You will find that following a process consistently will give you consistent results and you will have solid data to show the planning department where you can improve.

 

hope it helps,

Ciro