Saddam Hussein Attacks Forum!

[Jack Mitchell]

I just couldn’t resist – quite possibly, this could become a very large flaming folder.

 

But seriously folks; I had a person email me after reading a brief statement that I typed concerning other software packages.

I emailed Dave & Greg, asking for their blessing to print this here on the forum – It might be worded a little strongly, hence I cannot post without their blessing; John, the respondent is also aware & would like very much to open this discussion up.

 

I realize that, often, competitors will frequent this place. Personally, I think this is really great. – I don’t believe this to be the case.

 

John is investigating Mastercam & other software programs at the moment; he appears to be quite knowledgeable & does some really neat looking work.

 

Please convince this gentleman that Mastercam is the right choice for him.

 

My response back to him is a serious bash; I believe this opener and my email response to be enough from me on this topic.

 

Sell this man – I wish to print but cannot, but hey, it’s the weekend; And when it’s over TGIM.

 

Regards, Jack

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

To not be seriously considering Mastercam as THE choice for CNC Programming needs would put someone in one of two classes (IMNSHO), the clueless class, or the elitist class.

 

The clueless class thinks that software that makes all the decisions for you without any flexibility is a good thing. This class also believes that people that wear V-Neck Sweaters and put their faces on the credits of their software and on magazine advertisements are cool. (PDG is MUCH better looking than that guy. ) This class believes that Mandatory Annual Maintnance fees are a good thing. (Nevermind that the company charging those fees doesn't use that money for development, they use it to keep the lights on because they are barely in business) It also does not bother them that if they decide not to update to the next release, it's going to cost them more in the long run, as a matter of fact they take pride in a higher cost of ownership for the other software packages because it's a "Windows" Program and is fully integrated into the latest wizbang golly gee buzzword brand bloatware. This class doesn't care that Mastercam is in most Colleges, Universities, and Trade Schools where Mfg. Technology is taught, and it can even be found in a few High Schools. This is beneficial because when you are looking for a Programmer, you're probably going to be able to find one. This class also more likely to be sucked in by a good sales pitch as opposed to making an informed decision based on MY/YOUR parts and needs, not some canned demo that the guy has been doing since the dawn of time.

 

The elitist class won't look at software that runs on a PC. ("If it ain't UNIX it ain' $#!+") They believe that there is no possible way that anything that runs on a PC can make their widgets. They must spend $35,000 for a seat of CAD/CAM/CAE Software, another $20,000 for the SPARC Workstation, and about $5,000 per year in annual maintenance fees to program their ashtrays. Nevermind that even an intermediate Mastercam Programmer can often outproduce even the best CATIA, UG, Pro/E programmers by a factor higher than I feel like mentioning.

 

So with all of that said, I am a Programmer that has used Surfcam, Pathtrace/Edgecam, Smartcam, Flexcam , and Mastercam to earn a living, and if it was my own money to spend, Mastercam would CLEARLY be the choice I'd make. I've seen all the demos of the other packages except for Pro/E, and Pro/E has that "Magic Machine" button that programs all of your parts with one mouse click so I can just imagine what that part would look like after such an experience so I won't even go there.

 

JM2C get Mastercam, beside all that I mentioned above, you have this forum. Tech support 24/7. You may not get all the answers you were looking for but you'll at least get something, and sometimes, something is all it takes to get going in the right direction. Other software packages may have an online presence but it all pales in comparison to this and beside, we can criticize Mastercam in here without getting kicked. You can't go onto HP's website and bash their crappy drivers, they'll kick you in two shakes of a lambs tail.

 

There's just no comparison......

 

Go with Mastercam.......

 

[ 09-08-2002, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Rekd™]

[Jack Mitchell]

John,

 

Nice homepage.

I also stand corrected about the other user groups – I will not be frequenting them.

 

I agree with your comment about Edgecam. I bought this as version 2 since it fit right into Mechanical desktop at the time.

Once Mechanical desktop went to version 3, Edgecam was really late with the fix & eventual upgrade.

The support that I received from the US distributor was the bump to calling Pathtrace overseas ~ still no satisfaction, just a lot of talk.

All of this, then the begging for me to pay the maintenance agreements.

I was suckered badly this time and paid 500.00 US for absolutely nothing – not even an upgrade disk.

The next year again $750.00 US – the woman on the phone literally begged for the maintenance costs.

Once again, nothing,

 

Edgecam is slick & pretty, I’ll give it that much – the bottom line is they really can market their product on the coexistence compatibility issue.

Outside of that, try it out by itself – It sort of sucks.

Try it out within Solidworks, it actually fits up quite nicely - but still sucks.

 

Smartcam is a travesty in itself – The first cam package that I bought, learned and taught.

 

Really, when you analyze a cad or cam package – they are all just calculators with screens, same as the Cnc machine tools – calculators with spindles on them.

 

Every single cad/cam system needs their own unique interface to capture you – the end user.

 

Mastercam is the heads up leader with a bullet. I actually did an independent survey in 1995 for a government body.

I was well paid and compiled the actual user list for our surrounding area – Mastercam was 80% in 1995.

I believe they are closer to 90% today.

 

The largest factor favoring Cnc software is the constant improvements and of course the forum.

Bang around the forum for as long as you like – it’s intense sometimes, I sort of mix it up a little from time to time.

We have many off topic issues that effect almost all users – read the O/T coolant thread.

 

I sort of have a special situation since I am also a registered user of the other two products as well – I can call their baby’s ugly for I have paid large for these products.

Mastercam provides us with an affordable cam solution - follow your instincts on this one.

 

Regards, Jack

[cadcam]

What the Hell who is john and who are you talking about?

 

your last reply MAKES NO SENSE.

Are you haveing a Email conversation.

 

Please bring the rest of us to date sir.

If this is coming from another post please link to this post.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

[ 09-10-2002, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[Tony]

I smell a Sausage Post brewing...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

My take is that he's trying to persuade his friend John to get Mastercam. This is noe of the e-mails that Jack sent to him in his attempt to persuade.

[J Coulston]

I'm the John that Jack is talking to. I contacted Jack when I read his post stating that he was a licensed user of SmartCam, EdgeCam, and MasterCam and asked him a few questions. He said he would start a thread, so I wouldn’t have to get flamed when asking why I should buy MasterCam. I am currently looking for a replacement for SmartCam; I need to integrate SolidWorks with my CAM system. I am wasting too much time not being able to read the solid directly. I have looked at several packages, FeatureCam, Esprit, EdgeCam and of course MasterCam. I am a production shop, no mold work.

 

Right now I am torn between EdgeCam and MasterCam.

 

It is always tricky finding new software so I’m trying to get opinions from anyone who will give them. It is always better to talk to actual users, VARs will tell you the software will paint your house if they think that will sell you on it. I would love to hear from people that have used other software and switched to MasterCam.

 

This is what I see from playing around with EdgeCam. Right or wrong? It is associative to the external model file. With EdgeCam it will notify you that the external model has been changed, it will then inform you of the changes and ask if you want to update the tool path. EdgeCam has a good setup sheet tool that you can save screen shots and tooling information, it was saved as an html file. The biggest draw back to EdgeCAM I see is the cost and maintenance fees. The VAR called me the other day and told me that the next release of EdgeCam will be able to feature recognize hole and tapping information from the solid.

 

Is V10 going to have a windows GUI? Are there any plans for external associativity? Is VB going to be incorporated as a macro language? How would you compare customer’s models to the cam model for changes?

 

Before everyone flames my poor little eyes this is the best user group out of all the software I have demoed. That adds a lot to the value of the software. MasterCam would be the most convenient for me as the VAR is just a few miles away and doesn’t charge a yearly support fee and training is one on one.

 

All I want is something that is easy to use, works perfectly every time for every machining situation I encounter and I have complete control over every machining aspect. Is that too much to ask?????

 

Jack sorry, I didn’t get to post sooner, I have been swamped the last couple of days.

 

Thanks to everyone who replies.

 

John

[chris m]

quote:

---

All I want is something that is easy to use, works perfectly every time for every machining situation I encounter and I have complete control over every machining aspect. Is that too much to ask?????

---

Too much to ask? NO!

 

Too much to expect? YES!

 

I just want something that I can can stick the print in one side and get a part out the other...

 

No, I guess I don't; then why would they need me!?!?!?

[cadcam]

John Thank you for stepping forward.

I am going to stand to the side because I do sell mastercam and as you said that we salesman are talkers.

But so you know I am a full time user to with over 10 years of time under my belt.

 

Along with I love getting solid work files from my customers.

 

JM2C

 

Once again thanks for joining us and giving these nice folks a chance to talk with you.

 

[ 09-10-2002, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

John,

 

Welcome to our little corner of the Internet. Mastercam has an add-in that will launch Mastercam with your current part in Solidworks. I generally take a native AutoCAD file and read it in and begin modeling my part from that. It works very well. Systems I've imported native files successfully into Mastercam are Pro/E, UG, CATIA, Solidworks, Solid Edge, and Inventor. The only system I've had problems with are files from Co-Create. That software is a POS anyway and I've only recieved a couple of those and with some surface creation, I was able to create a solid model in Version 9.

 

I use Mastercam every day, and our shop has VMC's, a VMC with a rotary table, we have horizontals, we have 5 Axis Routers, we have water jets, and we have a 4 axis lathe. All except for the waterjets use MC for programming, but we use Mastercam for the CAD work that our waterjet software (OMAX) reads in to create the waterpaths.

 

As for EdgeCAM, i used it when it was Pathtrace, and found it cumbersome at best. It seemed liek it took 4x the work to get a rectangle drawn with a pocket toolpath routine. The maintenance is a big deal. You'll get nothing with it. It only entitles to purchase the next release. From a total cost of ownership standpoint, Mastercam cannot be beat. You update (V8 to V9 for ex.) when you want. You're not forced to get the next version and you're not penalized(read charged up the wazzoo, and they don't even give you a jar of Vaseline or a kiss before they screw you either) if you decide to skip a version. God help you if you skip 2 versions with those people. You may as well fork over your first born. Their tech support is absolutely AWFUL! Might as well not even exist.

 

Mastercam's pricing is nice if you buy say a Level 1 system to start with, and find you need more funtionality, you just pay the difference between what you have and what you want, plus any applicable taxes.

 

Those are my thoughts.

[gcode]

John,

 

If you put an ad in the paper for a programmer,

you will get 20 Mastercam guys for every one

EdgeCam programmer. If you plan on learning the software and doing it yourself, that's not an issue, until you get busy and need to hire some help. When that happens you'll be really glad you bought Mastercam.

 

Edgecam's external asscoiativity is a big plus

provided you own and know how to use the external software. My dream software is Mastercam running inside SolidWorks. HINT HINT HINT PDG!!!!

 

I used to own and run TekSoft, but watching the want ads made me realize being a TekSoft programmer was like being fluent in Latin.

There's not a lot for demand either.

 

When I bought TekSoft, Mastercam was in version 4

and TS was a superior product. Since then MC has left them in the dust.

 

TekSoft has new product called CamWorks which runs inside SolidWorks, but I've had zero experience with it.

A SolidWorks guy I know raves about it, but I've met other people who were not impressed.

 

There are software packages that may do this or that a little better than Mastercam, but when

viewed as a total package Mastercam is the most complete. Its got the largest pool of trained programmers. With 4 levels of features ( Entry L1 2 and 3) you only have to buy the power you need PLUS they don't hose you for an annual maintenence contract.

 

End of story

 

[ 09-10-2002, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[mold100]

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum,you wont find a place like this with any other software that you are looking in to.I am not a salesman,I am a programmer mostly in the complex mold manufacturing industry.I have used an been what I consider profiecient(sp?) in a few other softwares,but hands down pound for pound I would put Mastercam in the arena with any other EVEN so called highend softwares,CAM

end packages.Pro-man,VX,Catia,It dont matter Edgecam, or surfcam.All that will stand in the end is the unsurpassed quality of Mastercam.End of Story.Now that I am a dedicated user as far as I and my shop are concerned after trying many competitors in the last 3 years there isnt any other.

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

All I want is something that is easy to use, works perfectly every time for every machining situation I encounter and I have complete control over every machining aspect. Is that too much to ask?????

---

Heh.

Easy to use? Yes

Works every time for every situation? heh.

Complete control over all aspects? closer than most.

 

I've never had the pleasure of Edgecam, but I've used MC, Gibbs, (both virtual and pre-virtual GibbsNC), Cimitron, Surfcam and, (ack) Bobcad.

 

Mastercam wins hands down in my opinion...

 

-Rekd

 

[ 09-10-2002, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Tony]

John

If I were out of a Job, and the only

Job's out there were running anything BUT

Mastercam I would Pass.

[Jack Mitchell]

Jayson,

 

Please do not stand aside on this issue; John (God bless him), actually stood up to me, you, & the entire forum. This man wants to know the scoop – he is hungry for a solution, he only wants to make an informed decision on which cam system will best fit his company’s needs; I emailed you & James before responding with the follow up.

 

Sure, I could sell John in a five minute phone call – but quite frankly, this is not my job.

I have never, ever promoted a product before, nor have I received any form of gratuity for doing so. I am not interested in sales, profit, after market sales, post solutions, or anything else.

 

What’s in it for me?

The satisfaction that I was simply being me – I told the truth, I feel good, I said it like it is, etc!

 

Not to put you down, or any other VAR; sell this man and you will sell another ten, right here - on this forum.

 

This forum is truly the envy of all competitors; we work it, we play with it, and we earn the praise & the trashing with every post. Take it from me, I have issued and taken the beatings, and yet I fear not. – dammit all you guys, talk this one out.

 

I have be contemplating a remarkable fish story as of late - don't make me post this please.

 

Regards, Jack