Slightly OT- Considering continuing my education

[JMWorks]

I currently have an A.A.S. degree but feel that I am about as high up the food chain as I will get without getting a 4 year degree. I am only 23 so I have a lot of learning and years of working left. I am considering Mechanical Engineering B.S.M.E and Engineering Technology B.S.E.T, the Engineering Technology degree would fit my schedule far easier, but may not be the best choice as I hear a BSET degree may be limiting for some jobs. Just curious as to what is the most common degree among users on the board is, and what everyones thoughts were on the matter of education levels and manufacturing.

[gcode]

While I would like to go back to school but because I like to learn new stuff,

I won't for 2 reasons.

1. no time.. my day job runs 65/70 hrs a week and I contract program in my spare time

2. I don't believe a degree would add anything to my earning power, with overtime, I already make quite a bit more

than most of the salaried engineers I know

 

I'm moving this to the OT forum... you'll get more hits there.

[Del.]

 

1. no time.. my day job runs 65/70 hrs a week and I contract program in my spare time

 

 

That's just sad G.

[Besty™]

Do a cost benefits analysis. A degree just doesn't work for me. However, I don't plan only on my day job to make my life comfortable. I've found investing the money I would have spent on education into other ventures is my best bet.

 

It's a gamble, but it's the right decision for me. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.

 

I have found that things generally work out in life. You already know the right answer for you deep down. Take that answer and run my friend. Everything will work out in the end.

[bhyde]

If you want a degree, do it NOW. It doesn't get any easier to get it later. I am currently taking night classes at my local college for my ME degree.. This is not an easy task at all..While I managed to keep a minimum of a 3.75 GPA, it has been alot of work, late nights and even some very early mornings. I think most of this stuff would have been much easier had I managed to do it when I had the opportunity. i.e. closer to your age, and not my age (41 this Thursday).

 

Good luck in your pursuits!

[gcode]

When I was younger and had a job that didn't require so much OT

I took 4 semesters of Mastercam and 3 semesters of SolidWorks a local comminty college.

Those classes have been a huge help in advancing my carreer, but I did not pursure a degree

I could have kept going and wound up with an AA degree in Manufacturing Technology, but I couldn't

see the value in it.

[mowens]

It's fine to do cost benefit analysis and all that but, I wish I would have finished my degree just for the accomplishment. I say get your degree, whatever it is; go as high as you can.

 

Some of the highest paid engineers I know are the ones who do stress analysis, at least in aerospace.

[gcode]

I'm moving this again...

Its Off Topic, but the topic starter can't see it in Off Topic so...

back to the Main forum it goes

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

There is no real benefit (other than the pure learning of new stuff) for me to pursue a degree. It would cost me money and would grant $0 ROI. Now, with that said, I certainly would not be averse to taking some college classes here and there to learn some new stuff (software in particular) but beyond that, shoot... I could be teaching those classes WITH MY HS DIPLOMA!!!

 

 

[gcode]

if you go into manufacturing with a degree, you will enter at a much higher pay scale and your skills and pay will increase at a much higher rate over time.

 

I agree with the first part of this, but not the second.

A good CNC programmer on an hourly pay scale with overtime will make a lot more

than even senior engineers who are paid salary.. and they'll both work 50+ hours a week.

I've seen this over and over...at midsized companies and Fortune 500 companies as well.

[JMWorks]

I agree with the first part of this, but not the second.

A good CNC programmer on an hourly pay scale with overtime will make a lot more

than even senior engineers who are paid salary.. and they'll both work 50+ hours a week.

I've seen this over and over...at midsized companies and Fortune 500 companies as well.

 

Interesting info...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Derek, it COMPLETELY depends on where a person is at their career. As somebody at the beginning stages, yes a degree could help. For someone like me, that peice of paper isn't worth the pewp on it from wiping my arse with it. It's not going to gain me one more cent in salary over the course of my life. It's just not. Everybody is different, and there's no pat answer for everyone. Bottom line is you have to asess your carer goals and the path required to get there.

 

I'll put my W2 up against a seasoned ME, ANY day of the week. I've seen the slavery salary surveys...

[JMWorks]

Derek, it COMPLETELY depends on where a person is at their career. As somebody at the beginning stages, yes a degree could help. For someone like me, that peice of paper isn't worth the pewp on it from wiping my arse with it. It's not going to gain me one more cent in salary over the course of my life. It's just not. Everybody is different, and there's no pat answer for everyone. Bottom line is you have to asess your carer goals and the path required to get there.

 

I'll put my W2 up against a seasoned ME, ANY day of the week. I've seen the slavery salary surveys...

 

I am just taking a guess here but I am assuming you are a senior applications engineer for a machine tool distributor? That is a job I think I would enjoy and could be good at with some more experience, if that is the case it is good to know that it is not imperative to have a 4 year degree to get a similar job.

 

I am quite shocked as to how many people do not have a degree but still have high ranking positions in their companies. It goes to show that hardwork, knowledge and ability might actually get someone somewhere. The mentality around here seems to be "if they aren't smart enough to do the job, then promote them to management" or just bring in people who have no idea about what manufacturing is even though they have a 4 year education in that. I am just tired of my application being over looked some times because I don't have a 4 year education even though I could do the job just as effectively if not better. Same difference when it comes to experience, earlier in my career I was passed over for a programming position at a different company because I didn't have the 20 years experience this guy had, well his 20 years of experience was loading parts and pushing the button on the same 15 types of parts for those 20 years on 2 different machines, he knew nothing other than the programmer job paid better and had an office. I left that company after that, but heard later on he was let go from that position.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I am just taking a guess here but I am assuming you are a senior applications engineer for a machine tool distributor?

Thats' pretty accurate.

 

That is a job I think I would enjoy and could be good at with some more experience, if that is the case it is good to know that it is not imperative to have a 4 year degree to get a similar job.

Not required. I'm trying to figure out the ones I know that have degrees... I'm thinking maybe 30% have degrees, maybe a few percentage points more. To the best of my recollection, MOST do not. Not only does an AE require real world (not paper) skills, he needs to be able to convery those skills in a reassuring manner to the guy that just parted with $1,500,000 of his company's hard earned money. Sorry bus some n00b with a newly minted piece of paper isn't getting that done. No way, no how. Besides, I managed to get where I am today WITHOUT managing to rack up $100k in student loan debt. Thhose years spent turning handles was WAY more valuable IMHO. But to each their own.

[gcode]

I wouldn't be where I am today without the time I spent

at community colleges learning Mastercam and SolidWorks, but I don't think

the available AA degree would have added a penny to my earning power.

Having said that, there have been a few jobs I've seen that I would have liked to

apply for that required a 4 year degree.

[JMWorks]

Thats' pretty accurate.

 

 

Not required. I'm trying to figure out the ones I know that have degrees... I'm thinking maybe 30% have degrees, maybe a few percentage points more. To the best of my recollection, MOST do not. Not only does an AE require real world (not paper) skills, he needs to be able to convery those skills in a reassuring manner to the guy that just parted with $1,500,000 of his company's hard earned money. Sorry bus some n00b with a newly minted piece of paper isn't getting that done. No way, no how. Besides, I managed to get where I am today WITHOUT managing to rack up $100k in student loan debt. Thhose years spent turning handles was WAY more valuable IMHO. But to each their own.

 

Thanks for the insight, all is appreciated.

[uncle_dolan]

I think that there are a few options to get you a decent career. I'm 23 at the moment and doing a university engineering degree externally. I have a mid level programming job at the moment, and have only got this based on programming and experience in manufacturing. I completed an apprenticeship and have done a few other short courses. For me, a degree is learning more about engineering in general, and broadening the scope of my future...I'm not sure I want to be programming cnc's in 30 years time, and if i wasn't doing a degree IMO it would limit the possibilities and options for my future. I agree that it is hard to beat experience...but having said that, noone comes fresh off there degree expecting to earn 6 figures...you still need to prove yourself and expand your knowledge through practical application before you will land yourself your dream job.

[Bob W.]

A degree is what you make of it. It can be worth less than the piece of paper it is printed on or it can be worth the value of a Picasso. It all depends on the person and what they do with it. I went to college and did not finish my degree (two terms short) but I would say the experience was priceless for me. I got a very good understanding of physics, biology, chemistry, history, music, math, and engineering and I use them all on a daily basis. Life is a lot more than making money and college will definitely make you a more well-rounded, educated person. Lord knows we have enough ignorant Jack@sses around that make plenty of money. Get the degree, truly LEARN what they are teaching, and you will be a better person for it.

[Chris In-House Solutions]

I think what you need to do which is quite difficult is look at the current job market and then think about how it will look in 20 years. In 20 years there is no way someone with a HS education will be able to get a job as an application engineer working for a tooling manufacturer (no offense CNC Apps guy I think its great you have the job you have and I'm sure you're great at it). Even if that person has the knowledge and ability to work hard I think they will be passed up for the person with the university degree or college diploma.

 

I have two college diplomas and at the beginning of my second diploma I was considering going to University to complete my education. What i realized while doing my second diploma was that school ultimately teaches you two things. How to manage your time and how to find answers through homework and assignments. If you can independently work hard and find answers I think you will be ahead of most people.

 

Now with that being said I have gone and taken the odd night course trying to learn software this is simply because I do not have the time to learn it at work and need to know how to use it one piece of software being SolidWorks.

 

I believe to be successful in this growing field you need to have some education to get you started in a good company and then you have to be willing to constantly learn and update your skills.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

.. but now you just let me down, you went on record telling kids not to go to College...

 

Say it isn't so Joe

It ain't so. In my last post I forgot to reiterate that it REALLY depends where you want to end up and that REALLY needs to be weighed. I think I get a little hypersensitive with this issue because of the state of Publik "Education" and their push for EVERYONE to go to college. SOrry, my bad. Like Tom, I would not be where I am today without the evening and night classes I took at Mt. SAC all those years ago. IIRC I have around 32 units, basically I'm just short the $#!+ classes to have an AS in Mfg. Technology, and again like Tom, it would not contribute one red cent to my income to have that piece of paper.

 

Thank you for the kind comment Derek, I sincerely appreciate it. I just wish more thought went into pursuing a degree. If you have a goal, and that goal requires a degree, by all means pursue that degree. If you have a goal and it does not require a degree, don't get the degree. You're taking up space, and taking classes from people that have to wait 6 years to get a 4 year degree. That's all I'm saying Derek.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

...noone comes fresh off there degree expecting to earn 6 figures...you still need to prove yourself and expand your knowledge through practical application before you will land yourself your dream job.

 

Oh yes they do. I take it you didn't watch any of the OccuPoop Wherever Bowel Movement interviews... That's the kind of the crux of a big part of my argument. These kids, they've been told since they were in pre-school that they have to go to college and get a degree or they are going to be saying "Would you like fries with that.". Then their High School Counselors and College Counselors are not telling them they are goin g to have t pay their dues like anyone else and that degree they just earned does not release their obligation to pay their dues. Fast forward 4-5 years from the Freshman year in college... they have that massive student loan debt and maybe STILL asking "...will that be Tall, Grande, or Venti???" The High School and College Counsellors are not giving these kids the straigh $#!+ when they are going to schol. It's a travesty and it borders on the criminal IMHO.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I think what you need to do which is quite difficult is look at the current job market and then think about how it will look in 20 years. In 20 years there is no way someone with a HS education will be able to get a job as an application engineer working for a tooling manufacturer (no offense CNC Apps guy I think its great you have the job you have and I'm sure you're great at it). Even if that person has the knowledge and ability to work hard I think they will be passed up for the person with the university degree or college diploma.

No offense taken... i'm used to being abnormal, been that way my whole life.

 

I think I will politely disagree and here's why; Your premise I believe, is built on faulty logic. You are under the impression that Highschool and College Counsellors will guide SMART people to manufacturing, all I have to say about that is...

 

:rofl: :rofl:

 

This train we're on (academic elites against manufacturing) has been going FULL BORE since the 80's and maybe longer. And brother, it ain't slowing down anytime soon. Maybe it's different in the land of Molsons, Ice Fishing and Rush...

[Chris In-House Solutions]

CNC Apps I completely agree with your statement here.

 

"You are under the impression that Highschool and College Counsellors will guide SMART people to manufacturing"

 

I believe the issue is HS are closing shop classes at least up here in the frozen tundra. When I stated HS (and that's not that long ago) there was 2 wood working classes, 2 automotive shops and a metalworking shop. Now there is one of each. Meaning they have closed 2 of the shop classes.

 

How can you attract any kids or young people into this field if there are no means to do it when they are young? There are great opportunities in this field yet no encouragement to get into it.

[JMWorks]

Definitely a push in high schools to go away from anything manufacturing/hardworking related, which is a good thing and a bad thing. It means more job security for me and us, but it means American manufacturing will continue to fall because of lack of skilled labor.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

There are great opportunities in this field yet no encouragement to get into it.

Troof!

 

But by the same token, our skillsets are becomming QUITE valuable.