5 AXIS MACHINES PRO'S AND CON'S

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

Looking for you guys to share the pro's and con's on the most popular 5 axis mills ie. Variaxis , Matusurra, Mori, Okumas, etc, maybe give me your best ratings on choices 1 - 10 and which play well with Mastercam with the best results ? and the most bang for the buck .

Thanks In Advance

[Guest]

Tough, you really need to consider your work and what you're going to be processing through the machine, that'll determine a lot

 

Bottom line is you can't go wrong with quality iron on a quality machine, but do you "need" the Cadillac for what you're planning on using it for?

[Jeremy Herron@DBS Solutions™]

I have 3 variaxis 730's and several customers with 630's and they are good middle of the road machines. The 730 5ax-2 that we have are a little slower than the the new 5ax-3's, but pretty solid. My customer with the 630's 5ax-3's are much more nimble and quick, but the lack a little umph.

[Joe788]

What are you gonna be doing? Volume production? 1 offs? 3+2 or simultaneous? You're gonna be happy with any name brand Japanese machine, but the options and configuration can really play a role in how happy you end up.

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

Thanks Guys for the input, were looking at a few but i think some of the choices are being pushed by sales reps and i would like a real world view of in process machines.We will be doing i believe 3 + 2 axis stuff but tat could change once the tool hits the floor. I like the Good stuff but the $$ guys might not like the price, and we are not at this point doing super High precision Hard Turning Materials so we may be able to get by with a less solid Machine. But as you all know when a true 5 axis job is needed will some of the lesser 3+2 machines handle the surfacing high speed tool paths and hold close tolerances. ? I think this may have some Impact on the final choice or choices. Plus How many have there own Verification/ Optimization software that is a add in or comes with the Control Packages ,and do these work as good as say Vericut or others. These all add to the mix but we need to be able to see bad things before they happen just in case . As for the Parts Some R&D and some production but small numbers at this time. Looking for other markets to go after when we have the systems in place that allow this to happen.

Thanks Again to all Of you who always have great Things To say And Great Input to Add to the mix.

Happy TGIF

CadCam

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'll put my .02 in for Matsuura. They've been doing 5-Axis longer than the others you're considering. They've got it down pretty good. The MAM72 and CUBLEX series machines come with CAMplete (a bullet proof Post Processor and Collision detection software). I can't say enough good things about CAMplete. We paid full retail for it and pay maintenance on our two seats. Their customer support is the standard that ALL software companies should aspire to and that's no :bs: either.

 

Regrdless of what machine you go with, I personally prefer trunion style machines over the other types. They have their limitations with travel but usually if you can't get to something between +60-ish and -105-ish you're probably going to ned t get to that feature in a 2nd op anyway because the workholding will be in the way.

 

JM2CFWIW

[Joe788]

CADCAM, what size range are you looking at?

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

@ cnc apps i prefer the Mats over a lot of the other builders since for as long as i have been in the bus, they have always been ROCK SOLID and run forever,plus there History as a Quality MFG, is Top Shelf. and they run run run . They Were my first go to guys, but we have to look at the others also but your info bolsters my arguments, Thank You.

 

@ joe788 I think when it comes to sizes for us it could be lets say about 12 .0 x 12.0 cube that we can work around but some stuff gets bigger and some smaller so i think we may get 2 sizes 1 small to mid and 1 mid to larger but at this point during the process we are looking at our work envelopes with current and future jobs.

 

a lot of the stuff we do can be done in less setups on a 5 axis verses the 3 axis set ups and this may or will lead to more jobs since the more we can do the more we will do. But then it gets back to the dollar and cents of the Purchasing Dept when they look at spread sheets and have no clue on anything but dollar signs. We just have to pound it into there heads that what we want is want we want and need verses what they think is a good deal or a better price than what we choose.

 

Thanks Again to all who add to this topic since the info is more ammo we can use in this process.

CadCam

[Newbeeee™]

If you're looking at 'cheap' but love the matsuura, look at the mx520. No pallet change etc but a sweet machine.

Never used one - only an admirer

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

About the Matss MX... do a search for member Oscar R here. he's got one and would give you an honest asessment of the machine. I so often forget about that machine. Comes std with 60 tools, single round pallet, comes with CAMplete as well. Genewrous work envelope.

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

@ cnc Apps thanks for the input that would fill the bill for what we need to do at this point plus its a 1 stop package deal that would fit the reqs. I did find Oscar R and will chat with him to get some feedback.

@ newbeee thanks for your input i at this point am in the same boat admiring while the slow wheels churn in the purchasing dept.

[taperlength]

This is one I would like to have: http://www.mitsuiseiki.com/products/vl30-5X.asp

[Mic6]

I'm currently pushing and pushing to get an MX-520 in here, but the higher ups want a Variaxis.

[mkd]

 

awesome machine

quanto es?

[GoetzInd]

Makino is coming out w/a d300 (a little smaller than D500. My expeience w/ makino has been great. Can't go wrong with matsuura though. Plus, you can just bother james with any problem/questions

 

Mike

[austing]

Makino is by far and away has the best 5 axis packages available. From the Mag series to the D500 trunions we have them all and I have been very impressed.

[GoetzInd]

Mag series

 

Lucky you

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

 

awesome machine

quanto es?

 

I have no idea how much these things cost... not even ballpark. I work on the technical side of the business. I can tell you that it's not as much as you may think a 5-Axis Matsuura would cost at least that's what I've heard from people that have priced them out. The MX was created for a certain price-point. That's why it doesn't have a matrix tool magazine and pallet changer. That's about all I know for certain.

 

If you PM me, I can have your sales guy contact you and he can give you the particulars.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Makino is by far and away has the best 5 axis packages available.

That's definitely debatable. Makino is very good... but by far and away???? Not so much. What about Mitsui-Seiki and Yasda?

[austing]

Mag 3 dude.....

 

108 hp and 33,000 rpm

 

Aluminum material removal rates at 300 cubic in/ min

 

any questions?

[Newbeeee™]

Mag 3 dude.....

 

108 hp and 33,000 rpm

 

Aluminum material removal rates at 300 cubic in/ min

 

any questions?

All this rushing around isn't all its cracked upto be.

I mean, where's the overtime if you're cutting that quickly

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

+1000000

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Mag 3 dude.....

 

108 hp and 33,000 rpm

 

Aluminum material removal rates at 300 cubic in/ min

 

any questions?

 

 

Just because it has the most HP or can remove the most cubes is irrelevant to being "the best".

 

Any questions?

[MLS]

I have worked with Makinos and Mazak mostly, a couple mori's and mitsui's... A SNK or two...

 

We have a 730 variaxis which is a decent machine. Much more effective on 3+2 work than full 5-axis motion IMO. Pretty solid.

 

Makino is a ways ahead of Mazak control wise and speed wise IMO, but it does depend on the application you need. 33K is nice for Alum production I do have to say. R&D and one-off, or it you ever need to cut anything hard I think I would stick with a bit slower spindle.

[Jeremy Herron@DBS Solutions™]

MLS, Have you seen the matrix 2 controllers on the new generation Variaxis. I think they gave up a little umph, but the speed difference is amazing. Especiallly with the new 5-axis options. Still not saying they compete with the big boys, but good middle of the road.