Speeds&feeds

[Virg]

How can I get the software to accurately post the correct speeds&feeds according to the material that is chosen ? Without having to fiqure them every time. Thanks for your help

[mkd]

the problem lays with what is "correct" and to whom, how.

[mkd]

now that i'm done being a smarty pants, the best answer is to setup tool libraries. one library file for each material you want to setup.

it' can seem like a pain for a newbie to setup, but WILL pay dividends in the future.

 

search this forum, you will get lots of inspiration

welcome to the best MFG forum

[Rotary Ninja]

mkd is right, with both of his posts. Create a tool library specific for the material. Create all your tools with the guestimated feeds and speeds. I don't believe in the "Use this SFM/chip load system. Each part is different. Each toolpath is different. Each setup is different. Setting up a library will get you ballpark numbers to start with the next time you use that same tool for the same material. But all these factors are going to play a part in the optimal feeds and speeds in my opinion.

[crazy^millman]

How much more complex a question is there really to ask? The guys have started you on the path, but it really comes down to what you are looking to do with a process. The are many tools along with new tools in Mastercam that give you some real flexibility in the system. It comes down to how much work you want to put into the process. There is the tool libraries where you can setup tools. By going down this route you create tools that are specific to certain tasks or operations you are normally doing. By making them by material or machine specific then you can really nail down things to the tool level. The disadvantage of course is the very nature of the type of work you do or it could be the best advantage as to the type of work you do. If you are always doing plate work and are always doing counterbores and tapped holes with maybe some pockets in the same material day in and day out the tool libraries if setup correctly could allow you to program most pars in less than 20 minutes without every touching a thing with regards to your tools. Where is the tradeoff in this approach? You will not learn anything get to a place of just in all reality being a button pusher just clicking a tool telling it to do this to that place and done. The operational approach where you build complete operational sets with speeds feeds depths of cuts all done and you just pick geometry ties in real well to this approach I will cover that later. Yes this is going to be a lengthy response. Back to tool libraries. In my opinion tool libraries when set up correctly are perfect guidelines for doing work and it really comes back again to how much work are you willing to put into the equation. Sweat equality in tool libraries pays the most dividends. I see people have 1/2 endmill and then will have 14 of them in one tool library. Then the problem this creates is back to not having one at all and then which one is doing what for operations. Taking time and using a system for your tool libraries is the best approach. Where to start is most peoples question? You start with the basics. Take that 1/2 endmill and now think about just aluminum. I may be cutting 6061, 7075, 2021, 2024, and then thay may be in O condition to T7 condition. In all reality most machine are never fast enough for me to cut Aluminum. So maxed out on speeds and feeds for a standard 1/2 endmill for roughing is normal. However how many different types of 1/2 endmills are out there? There is the 2,3,4,5,6,8 and 10 flute endmills each one of them offering their own advantages and disadvantages. A 2 flute endmill is great for just down and dirty plunging and good chip evacuation, but is it a stub length, standard length, long extra-long or stupid silly long length? Has it been flat ground for doing 5 axis milling on contoured surfaces? Is it coated? Is it in a balanced holder? Using a Weldon type shank? Will it have thru the spindle coolant coming from the tool holder? Again all seems like a lot ot think about, but guess what this is the job of a good programmer and to think of all these things and consider how your tool library is going to help you do your job the best possible way. So let’s start thinking about our tool library naming conventions. There is the basic method Mastercam has or many different ones I have seen people do over the years. Some people take the catalog number right out of the book and use that. They then have a excel spread sheet with all the pictures and descriptions showing what they can or normally use. As they add tools to their use they update the excel spread sheet. What is cool about this method is most people have this one a server and the tool crib, purchasing and programming all share it. The Programmer sees what the tool crib says is on hand and programs to that or put their request into the tool crib to order the tool for the upcoming job or purchasing. Since all 3 can see the picture and description helps the process. Goes back to using things correctly, there is people process and technology in any company. The programmer is the people aspect; the process is what you are building when you are making the tool library, travel, work instruction, setup sheet, tool list and etc. The technology is the Mastercam, Excel, Job Boss, MRP, ERP, CNC machining, and etc. By using the correct technology here with communication you harness the process which it turns makes the people more able to do the job. It however starts with the Owner to decide he wants the right people to make the right process to support the right technology. I never really worried about upsetting people by doing my best. I have seen many guys who get worried if other people are going to accept them if they work to hard, push to hard to try to make thing better. Seems though I am all over the road here I am not it is as simple as this question you just asked. I go into company after company and they have no process they have no control and they want ot point fingers here and there. The tool library is really the programmer’s area of responsibility and I am guilty of being lazy here as well. I know SFM, Chip Load and Depth of cut for just about every tool I have ever programmed. I almost always do it from memory on my programming. I of course can be helping someone on an impeller one day or high heat treat 75 operation landing gear component the next. I have built a lot of libraries over the years. I have made complete tool sets of stuff, but a lot of it comes from memory. I point the finger at myself here, but also understand and point out to all I have instructed and worked with the importance of a good system.

 

Back to the topic at hand and tool libraries. By coming up with the system and using it correctly you will see great benefits. Now in Beta is a new tool library method that quite simple put rocks. I will do a complete topic on it when it comes out to the public, but for now I will just focus on the current method. 1/2 endmill naming seems basic enough, but as I touched on early it comes down to the fundamentals of what you are using and doing with that endmill. I have done naming like 1/2EM 3FL 1IN LOC 4IN AOL and now when that description goes into my tool header the operator, the set-up guy and the shop foreman all understood what I programmed to. I programmed using a 3 Flute 1/2 endmill with a 1" length of cut that was a 4" overall length. Now for stick out and things like that I still have a tool list, but at least it insured we were all as close to the same page as possible. Now I have not programmed using HSS endmills in years and anyone running HSS on CNC machines needs get out $100 bills and just wrap them around their parts. Now I may have 20 or 30 1/2 endmills in my tool library for aluminum. Yes important point here I would have an aluminum, SS, Ti and other tool libraries. I would also have Cat 40 and Cat 50 libraries if where I working had a mix of machines. By using a standard method and using it in a method other people can understand then you create a communication tool that can be used across the company. I marvel at place where there is no tool header in the programs. No tool Header at each tool change. They wonder why they get scraped parts and problems on the floor. Well we gave them a tool list. Sorry, but people are lazy and if they see 1/2 endmill they may not care if it is the one you were programming too. By having more effective names you have a more effective process.

 

Operations defaults is another area most people avoid like the plague. Here is another powerful tool inside of Mastercam. The operational defaults are now stored with each control definition. That control definition should be completely tailored to each machine you have in your company. The default setting for operations should all be set and ready to go. Operational groups for standard stuff like tapped holes, Pocket roughing operations and other thing you commonly do can also be a huge time saver. I wish Mastercam did a better job of saving machine groups with the export operations, but over time I am sure that will come. This makes routine thing you do day in and day out stupid simple. Now problem there are too many read something like this and say okay let’s get there tomorrow. I have to just laugh even typing that because of the mentality of some owners. It takes time to build a process and it takes people to build it. The technology may be there, but they never want to invest time which is really money into that process. They think it all just happens by magic and read some article or listen to some fancy sales pitch and think okay we need that lets get it done now. Okay give me a $1 Million and I will have it ready in a week. Oh yeah putting numbers like that a new process gets every owners attention. You are just crazy and do not know what you are talking about. Okay let’s look at a real world situation and use it as our model. Extreme Makeover home Edition. Does anyone really think that they show up sight unseen and in 7 days have a builder, people and everything ready? It takes tons of planning to get there. It also takes tons of money to build and do what gets done in a week. Guess what some of those people lost their house. Why because it was too much for them to handle. Business owners who do not have a handle on the people, process and technology at their companies are the same way. Prime example I will give a place that had $1.2 million a year in over time with $1 million a year in maintenance cost on equipment. I researched putting a new cell system in that would cost $2.2 million. I did time studies on all jobs in the company and have a 5 year forecast of future work and a history of work done for 4 years prior. The equipment in the company was no longer being made and getting service for them was crazy expensive and took considerable amounts of time to get down machines up and running. I had put together a complete plan and process that would move the equipment in and remove old equipment sitting and not working just taking up floor space. It would be a 6 week process doing everything. In one year in just savings on overtime and maintenance the cell system would have paid for itself. That was no improvements on cycle times figured into that total that was just taking existing work and moving it from the old wore out breaking down equipment to the brand new state of the art cell system. I was told “under no uncertain terms was I too pursue that or do anymore work on that or I would be fired”. There was the break down. We had the people, the process, but the break was the technology. Again seems I am going all over the place, but the tool library is really technology and it helps the people to improve the process which harness the technology.

 

Do not let the idea of implementing a good tool library be an afterthought it can be one of the most important jobs a programmer does. By putting the correct process into place with the operator and the set-up guy and the other people involved in the organization it becomes a team effort and simple thing like a good tool library will help people see there is a process to move forward. As people see companies care about the process and invest in the technology to move that process forward they will feel part of a team. As they fell part of a team they will work hard do their best to improve things and the process will get better because they help move it along. A tool library seems like such a simple basic thing, but some of the tallest buildings in the world are nothing without the basic building blocks of a good foundation. Let your tool library be the building block to make a process that shows everyone the company can accomplish anything with you at the helm of the programming of their CNC machines.

[Newbeeee™]

Yes this is going to be a lengthy response.

Awesome Ron

 

BTW - Your comment about beta tool libs - do you know if existing libraries import/convert ok?

Thanks

[Rotary Ninja]

Wow. Very good post Ron. Where I work now we cut mostly aluminum like 6061, 2024, and 7075. We also cut 4130, 4140, 1018, etc. I have one library for steel and one for aluminum. I know what you mean about you cut depths and feeds coming from memory. I do have a few tools that I have duplicated with feeds/speeds altered depending on what I am using the tool for. They are labled accordingly. Such as my mill drill. I have on with settings for spot drilling and one for chamfering. It would be nice if you were allowed to have multiple RPM's on tools for using this way. Such as one RPM for plunging and one for contouring. I can't wait til X7 comes out!

[Glenn Bouman]

Now I have not programmed using HSS endmills in years and anyone running HSS on CNC machines needs get out $100 bills and just wrap them around their parts.

 

I agree, ever notice that Mastercam's tool libraries SFM values are all based on HSS tooling?

There is a huge oppurtunity for CNC Software to make some improvements here.

 

 

This program is a good starting point for setting feeds/speeds as it take depth of cut, work holding and cutting method into account

www.millingadvisor.com

 

 

And yes old tool libraries will convert to 7

[crazy^millman]

Glenn yes and it sickens me every time I see it, but it is not CNC Software fault it is the industries fault. People want to cheap out all the time and they have to make a software that the people want. By taking out HSS I suspect they will get a ton of backlash from those people still running 1990 CNC machines wondering why they are not getting any work an their prices are too high even though their shop rate is $55/hr. I know companies who have a shop rate of $250/hr, but make parts in minutes that most shops cannot get done in hours. Embrace the technology and the technology will pay for itself. Fight it do not learn it and say no school like the old school and see where it goes.

[Newbeeee™]

Thanks Glenn

[Glenn Bouman]

By taking out HSS I suspect they will get a ton of backlash from those people still running 1990 CNC

 

They don't need to take it out, they just need to make the material library useable, by setting HSS, Carbide etc to all 100% shows that not a lot of thought or effort has gone into Feeds/Speeds from Material calculation.

 

It would be nice as if something like the MillingAdvisor was incorporated into Mastercam since most of the variables could come directly from Mastercam's toolpath and tooling parameters.

MillingAdvisorSetup-4.1-1369.zip

[zero_divide]

Shameless self promotion

While some other calculators at times give bogus numbers

I have not heard anyone complaining about my tool.

FSWizard

It gives speeds very close to optimal ones.

Considers tool length, depth of cut and so on.

It also very accurately suggests cutting depths in relation to material and length of tool.

Of course chip thinning and HSM are supported fully.

 

Edit: a standalone version that is integrated with MC is in the pipeline.

[Fred @ Slate Industries]

I do it Just like Ron.

 

You can't believe how many people "Avoid it like the plague" like Ron said

(Not to mention never fix issues, still editing every post output for years)

Tool's/ Material & Op's Plug'em in !