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Arc Filter - Create arcs in XY

drafting3

By drafting3,
in Industrial Forum

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drafting3 Newbie

drafting3

Posted
Posted

Hi Guys,

 

Been having some issues with high speed toolpaths for a while, and I'm curious if there's anything I can do...

 

 

The mill I work with is old. (Fanuc 6M B controller) This hasn't stopped me from doing some really cool 3D surfacing.

 

However, I've been trying to work with high speed machining and I'm having issues. Basically, my mill's controller can only handle so many lines of code per second, and the high speed toolpaths keep wanting to make tiny G1 moves. My machine will basically jerk over .001", then stop and wait for the next line of code, then jerk over another .001" and wait for the next line of code. These delays are only milliseconds, but they are very noticeable when it's happening 1000 times. I've played around with arc filter / tolerances, but i can't fix it.

 

Any ideas? Do the highspeed toolpaths require these tiny moves?

 

 

Here's my code:

 

 

%

O1500

(PROGRAM NAME)

(DATE=DD-MM-YY - 27-06-13 TIME=HH:MM - 09:21)

( 3/8 FLAT ENDMILL TOOL - 1 DIA. OFF. - 1 LEN. - 1 DIA. - .375)

G20

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drafting3 Newbie

drafting3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

this path is just a 2D highspeed peel mill. feed set to 40 ipm.

 

i am only cutting air right now, as i'm trying to figure out how to make this machine perform better.

 

 

it looks to me like that toolpath can be done with all arcs, but instead it's posting as G1 moves.

 

i just need to bring the lines per second WAY down, and I'd like to raise my feed up. the only way i can accomplish this is by having mastercam post the moves as arcs.

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Rstewart Apprentice

Rstewart

Posted
Posted

this path is just a 2D highspeed peel mill. feed set to 40 ipm.

 

i am only cutting air right now, as i'm trying to figure out how to make this machine perform better.

 

 

it looks to me like that toolpath can be done with all arcs, but instead it's posting as G1 moves.

 

i just need to bring the lines per second WAY down, and I'd like to raise my feed up. the only way i can accomplish this is by having mastercam post the moves as arcs.

 

Your gunna need to leave plenty of stock but you can turn the tolerance way up to about .008" and you'll git mostly arcs. Hope this helps

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drafting3 Newbie

drafting3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Your gunna need to leave plenty of stock but you can turn the tolerance way up to about .008" and you'll git mostly arcs. Hope this helps

 

i just tried leaving 0.050" on the stock, and giving the arc tolerance a total of 0.050", and it changed about half the moves to arcs.

 

Hmm...

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?Mark Apprentice

?Mark

Posted
Posted

Also I recommend editing your post to output IJK's. Nothing to do with the problem at hand, but will possibly help avoid unexpected moves by the control....

 

I use all HS toolpaths daily and arc's are your friend on older controls. Does it have any kind of look ahead? Turning it on might make significant difference.

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Colin Gilchrist Proficient

Colin Gilchrist

Posted
Posted

How is your Control Definition set? Do you have Helix support turned on? If not, the Micro Lift moves will always be broken into line segments. If your control will support it, I would enable Helix output. That is probably the linear moves you are seeing.

 

What specific toolpath are you using? You can try setting the Micro Lift option to 0.0, and use the same (or slightly higher) value for Back feedrate.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Colin

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djstedman Newbie

djstedman

Posted
Posted

Working in older machines filtering becomes critical .. since there is essentially no look ahead or if there is its generally not much of a buffer, on top of that they tend to be using ridiculously underpowered processors since that's what was available at time of manufacture so that only makes the limited lookahead buffers that much more of a problem.

 

I generally use a filter ratio of 3:1 on older machines to reduce filesize as mush as possible.. would be cool if someone could actually give an explanation of 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 since for me I have just played with it to see what worked better.

 

I haven't ever been sure what the ratio was its always seemed like 3:1 was more aggressive filtering and 1:1 the least aggressive.. but It would be nice to have an actual explanation of it.

 

Anyhow.. I have had times when all we could do was tweak the filtering to whatever we could come up with that was best case and then post it with a high feed rate, then bring it to the machine and use feedrate override to drop the feed until we established what the maximum feedrate was that that particular machine could handle on that toolpath, then repost with that as the actual federate with SFM being adjusted accordingly.

 

It stinks not being able to take full advantage of some of the high speed paths, but using this method we still managed to get some good results and we knew we were doing about as best as was going to be possible on that machine.

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Colin Gilchrist Proficient

Colin Gilchrist

Posted
Posted

Hi Dj,

 

I've covered the Filter settings numerous times on here. If you do a search, you'll find lots of information.

 

The ratio you are seeing is the "Filter Tolerance" to "Cut tolerance" ratio.

 

When you create a toolpath, the first thing that happens is the entire toolpath is linearized. Then the toolpath uses the "cut tolerance" filter to remove moves from the path that are smaller than your tolerance (basically we try and fit a single line to a section of line segments, if it is within the given tolerance).

 

Then the "Arc Filter" runs on the toolpath. This attempts to fit Arcs to the toolpath, within a given tolerance.

 

So the ratio is the split of the "Total tolerance" between the "cut tolerance" and the "arc filter" tolerance.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Colin

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drafting3 Newbie

drafting3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Are you cutting Spline geo or normal lines? Btw, I usually set to 2:1 ratio.

 

Arcs only. There is no spline geometry being used to drive the toolpath.

 

You have the ratio set 1:1, set it 2:1 and you will have better results.

 

That is a very coarse tolerance you have for an inch part.

 

I've played around with the arc tolerances. Set to 1:1, 2:1, and 3:1, going as high as 0.100" total tolerance.

 

Nothing helps. I still get almost entirely G01 moves.

 

 

How is your Control Definition set? Do you have Helix support turned on? If not, the Micro Lift moves will always be broken into line segments. If your control will support it, I would enable Helix output. That is probably the linear moves you are seeing.

 

What specific toolpath are you using? You can try setting the Micro Lift option to 0.0, and use the same (or slightly higher) value for Back feedrate.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Colin

 

I have helix supported, but I'm not using any microlifts. I'm clearing away full depth of stock, so microlifts won't gain me anything as I'm returning over air anyways.

 

 

Working in older machines filtering becomes critical .. since there is essentially no look ahead or if there is its generally not much of a buffer, on top of that they tend to be using ridiculously underpowered processors since that's what was available at time of manufacture so that only makes the limited lookahead buffers that much more of a problem.

 

I generally use a filter ratio of 3:1 on older machines to reduce filesize as mush as possible.. would be cool if someone could actually give an explanation of 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 since for me I have just played with it to see what worked better.

 

I haven't ever been sure what the ratio was its always seemed like 3:1 was more aggressive filtering and 1:1 the least aggressive.. but It would be nice to have an actual explanation of it.

 

Anyhow.. I have had times when all we could do was tweak the filtering to whatever we could come up with that was best case and then post it with a high feed rate, then bring it to the machine and use feedrate override to drop the feed until we established what the maximum feedrate was that that particular machine could handle on that toolpath, then repost with that as the actual federate with SFM being adjusted accordingly.

 

It stinks not being able to take full advantage of some of the high speed paths, but using this method we still managed to get some good results and we knew we were doing about as best as was going to be possible on that machine.

 

This is definitely what I'm dealing with. The processor speed is insufficient for a scientific calculator, much less a high speed toolpath.

 

I've played around with the arc filters for days. This may just be a dead horse... and my arms are getting tired...

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