5 Axis Router recommendation .

[mcpgmr]

We are looking to purchase a machine that will suit or needs in our aero composite production department. The majority of the parts are molded near net shape and we will be mostly require trimming and fastener holes. I'm thinking that a CNC router would probably be our best bet. Any suggestions? Our largest parts will be in the 30" x 30" x 12" range. Thanks in advance!

 

Paul

[Bryan Johnson]

http://www.dmscncrouters.com

 

 

[mcpgmr]

Thanks for the link! Any experience with DMS?

[JAMMAN]

I don't have one but if I needed one I would get one of these:

http://www.thermwood.com

One of our customers is a big wig there, maybe a part owner been a while not sure.

Anyone I have talked to that has one loves it

Mastercam friendly or used to be anyway.

[mcpgmr]

Thanks. When I worked at Boeing back in the 90's they had a bunch of 3 Axis Thermwoods for sheet metal machining. I didn't program those but never heard a bad thing about them.

[Jayson Kramer]

I have a customer that I program there Thermwood Model 90 Nice machine I have programed about 180 parts so far for it.

I also will be doing some onsite training for company were the use about 20 of the older and the newer ones for custom high end plane cabin areas and seating.

 

What are you planing on cutting will a 50x 10 table do the job? how many tools do you think you will need to hold. the model 90 comes with a 25,000 rpm spindal. just some thoughts.

[mkd]

one interesting/nice (or infuriating to figure out the logic with pivot point) thing with the thermwoods is that if you just want to cut a three axis part you can simply use a 3 axis post.

I.E. Z0 is the tip of the tool when head is 0/0 straight down.

 

being on the west coast is a pain because you need to fly a technician out from Indiana in a case where you absolutely have to have factory support.

 

don't run McAfee virus protection on their PC controls......

ask me how i know........ :realmad:

 

also it seems pretty cool for a router to come with volumetric calibration setup from the factory. rather expensive for this field calibration, but at least it is available.

[mcpgmr]

Jay, Our largest composite press that will be feeding the router has a 27" X 24" platen. We would need a minimum of that to machine our parts. Thanks for your input.

[Thee Starry™]

Thermwood are easy to use and work well with Mastercam, but I would suggest the new model 90 as it is far more rigid than the other models of their 5 axis machines. They ship all Thermwood 5 axis with a 1" dial indicator for tramming the head in, which is a nice thought, until you realize that in some instances, you need the whole inch!

 

Royce, DMS and Komo make nice enough 5 axis routers that are plenty rigid, but they're more expensive.

 

Some of the code on Thermwoods is interesting, but their proprietary macros for holes, slots, etc is really simple and intuitive if you need to add a quick hole or slot on the fly.

[Jayson Kramer]

if you by the Model 90 make sure to have them include the post for it. My customer bought me a proven post from them and has been a great tool.

[CamMan1]

C.R. Onsrud

http://www.cronsrud.com/5axis_wide_pro_series.html#.UlwpcBCRL0U

[KenD]

We have 2 CMS Routers both using Fanuc 31i A5 Controllers. CMS routers are made in Italy and are high precision with 1 being a 20' x 20 x' 72 in Z travel. About 4 million Installed and the 10' x 20' x 72 in in Z at half the cost.. Very robust machines and highly precision using scales for feedback. We are machining composite structures also. Mastercam X7 and Catia V5 R21 with ICAM post processors. There is another company out of Colorado Springs, CO (DMS) .

So take a look at CMS North America (http://www.cmsna.com/) and DMS(http://www.dmscncrouters.com/ )

 

We are building the Orion Heatshield and Aeroshell.and other large structures.

[mkd]

if you by the Model 90 make sure to have them include the post for it. My customer bought me a proven post from them and has been a great tool.

this supplied post worked well, but was super-locked down. IIRC had to buy a new on one every MC version.

I got a new one from CAD-CAM, and never looked back.

 

model 90 i'm familiar with has a C axis limited to 370-ish degrees. A "crash protected" spring loaded head severely limits what you can do with it. it does get more rigid if you put in the 1/4" bolts to lockup.

[mcpgmr]

Thanks guys for all the info. I've got 3 or 4 to pick from now.

[Tyler Robertson]

if you're tired of things being too easy get a robot

[mcpgmr]

Yes I've seen that and it's pretty cool!

[Tyler Robertson]

if you go with a robot Starry said he would program it for you pro-bono

[MATT Q]

We are using thermwoods here also and Mastercam I don't have a problem just make sure you keep the thing in tram. We do all kinds of fiberglass, plastic, and mold work here.

[mcpgmr]

Thanks! Next week I have two sales reps coming in. Breton and CMS. I will be contacting Thermwood soon as well as afew others. C.R. Onsrud, Quintax, and DMS.

[Thee Starry™]

if you go with a robot Starry said he would program it for you pro-bono

 

But only if I am given a really difficult file to work from. Perhaps a really funky STL that you need absolute precision on... Oh, and don't give me any real information other than, "I need this done, immediately"

 

I LOVE a challenge!

 

[kathy]

Komo over Thermwood anyday

[Jayson Kramer]

Kathy why, I was not impressed at all with Komo. jm2c

[Buddy J]

I program and run a CMS, ARES-4818-PX5

X-189", Y-71", Z-47", B+/- 120 degrees, C +/- 270 degrees

About 400K installed so maybe more in the size you'd be wanting

Machine is primarily for composite structures and Radoms but has performed well

machining large holding and vacuum fixtures from aluminum, light cuts only. Forget

anything aggressive but it holds tolerances extremely well!

Their support is great via phone or Go to meeting on the machine.

No regrets here

[mcpgmr]

Thanks for the reply Buddy. I have CMS coming in next week to visit our facility. I have to admit this is going to be a tough decision making process. I'm somewhat torn between traditional metal cutting machinery and these router/machining centers. On one hand I want the larger format 5 Axis to grow into and on the other hand I know our parts will never get bigger than 24" x 27" and a Mazak or Mori in the right configuration will be more muscle than I'll ever need. Currently we are using a Deckel Maho DMU 70 and it's not large enough for some of our parts. One part in particular is only 20" x 12" but the angle features on the part when presented to the spindle throw the part out of the travels of the machine. I hate the table/table config on that machine. Plus the break down all the time. Well I'm rambling on and haven't even had my coffee yet. BTW, COBHAM Defense? You guys have a facility close to where I work I believe. See ya!

[Thee Starry™]

Komo over Thermwood anyday

 

Previous to moving their manufacturing to china, and then back to the USA, I would agree 100%. They were more rigid machines, made right here in Minnesota and ran Fanuc controls. Much easier to work with for most people and were so much more accurate and repeatable than Thermwood. The Thermwood SuperControl is easy enough, but still required new training due to the proprietary nature of the system and they weren't nearly as rigid and accurate, nor could they hold tight tolerances very well. With the advent of the Model 90 and the Super 90, Thermwood resolved the rigidity, accuracy and tolerance issues greatly so the gap was negated. The fact that they never left America puts them ahead of KOMO now, IMO.