Entry level 5 axis

[Zoober]

Cool. See you then. Not positive what time yet. I'll keep you posted.

just shoot me an email or txt.

[Guest]

Will do.

[Bob W.]

How easy of an integration has Vericut been for you? Were the machine models supplied by Makino? What kind of time do you spend verifying a moderately complex part? Say something done in two setups on the HMC tombstone with all six sides machined. One face and two sides on Op. 10 and the other face and other two sides on Op, a shoe box with milling on all sides.

 

It has been pretty easy but I am very proficient at CAD and I do all of my own modeling, and I have a friend that does contract engineering as well. I had him over for a day to model all of my holders and create STL files for them. I modeled my own machine because I felt I could do it more accurately and I wanted to be sure it was right. I only have what really matters modeled (spindle and pallet) but they are modeled to .001". I also modeled my rotary and all tombstones as accurately as I could. It takes a while to get the tool libraries all set up but when it is done right verification is very fast. For simulating molds the verification speed is about 5X as fast as Mastercam and this is doing collision checking with the NC code. To set up and simulate the project you described if the programming is done and all NC files posted would take about 5-10 minutes and it would produce a tool list with holders specified and cutter stick out listed as well.

[cincy k]

It has been pretty easy but I am very proficient at CAD and I do all of my own modeling, and I have a friend that does contract engineering as well. I had him over for a day to model all of my holders and create STL files for them. I modeled my own machine because I felt I could do it more accurately and I wanted to be sure it was right. I only have what really matters modeled (spindle and pallet) but they are modeled to .001". I also modeled my rotary and all tombstones as accurately as I could. It takes a while to get the tool libraries all set up but when it is done right verification is very fast. For simulating molds the verification speed is about 5X as fast as Mastercam and this is doing collision checking with the NC code. To set up and simulate the project you described if the programming is done and all NC files posted would take about 5-10 minutes and it would produce a tool list with holders specified and cutter stick out listed as well.

 

Wow that's a lot quicker than i had anticipated.

What specifically do you have from Vericut? Verification, machine simulation, optipath? I'm trying to see what the bare bones necessity would be for keeping a machine safe.

What foundation is under your A51nx?

[Bob W.]

I have verification, machine simulation, and the Mastercam interface. You'd be crazy to spend $300k on a 5-axis machine and not get machine simulation. If you don't get it you will crash the machine, then end up buying it after spending $50k on machine repairs :-) IT IS A MUST HAVE, whether Camplete, Vericut, etc... My foundation is crap and that is a huge reason for needing to move into a bigger/ better shop. The nice thing about the A51 is it sets on 3 points so foundation issues don't really translate into the casting and affect machine accuracy. This was one of the reasons I really liked the A51 over other makes.

 

The reason Vericut's simulation is so fast is because the time and effort I have put into setting it up (tool libraries, etc...) Nothing goes on the A51 without running through Vericut first. If there isn't a Vericut tool list for the project, which can only be printed after a simulation, the project doesn't run on the machine, period. It is quick and easy to use and it doesn't slow the work flow one bit.

[Jayson Kramer]

Foghorn , I am guessing I will see you after you see Robert correct?

[Chipmakr]

Mikron offers a 60 tool version of the machine along with a 7 pallet changer. One down side is the pallets reduce your work envelope quite a bit because of their height. Another is that 60 tools for having 7 pallets in our particular job shop environment isn't nearly enough. Smaller tool magazines seem to be hard to come by in this price range.

 

I will also be doing a lot of work with the trunnion kicked over at 90 degrees and it seems the spindle nose is pretty stubbed up and may cause clearance issues. The Matsuura seems a lot more friendly at A -90 though still a little limited in Y axis travel.

 

Have you done any tracking of or had any issues with thermal growth?

 

Clearance has not been an issue. We have standardized risers we use on our other 5x machines and we bolted one on the table. The pallet height will probably help you in this regard. This machine has glass scales and the smart machine modules that do thermal comp. We havn't had any issues with geometry. I will see if I can get a video up tomorrow. We are roughing some Monel back there right now. The machine seems very rigid @ B90.

 

We have a UCP600 vario with a 30 tool changer and a 7 pallet changer on it. We struggle with tool capacity. We end up pulling tools and storing them in kits and going in and out as jobs change. A complex part can easily eat up all our tool positions, many times I could have ran multiple part #'s overnight if we had more capacity here. Our newer machine has 17 pallets and 68 tools. Its better at least I can tool up for multiple parts, but I would like 120+

[Guest]

Foghorn , I am guessing I will see you after you see Robert correct?

That would be correct.

[cincy k]

120 tools seems to be the tipping point for most people, me included. The 133 tools that come on a Makino HMC would be a very nice attribute to have for our needs.

 

I wouldn't mind so much swapping tools in and out of the machine if i could do it quickly through a loading door. On my current machines I'm stuck loading at the spindle and it is a HUGE time waster. MDI, T1 M6, MPG mode, load tool, MDI, T2 M6, wait for it to index at every freakin tool position, MPG mode, load tool...

[cincy k]

I have verification, machine simulation, and the Mastercam interface. You'd be crazy to spend $300k on a 5-axis machine and not get machine simulation. If you don't get it you will crash the machine, then end up buying it after spending $50k on machine repairs :-) IT IS A MUST HAVE, whether Camplete, Vericut, etc... My foundation is crap and that is a huge reason for needing to move into a bigger/ better shop. The nice thing about the A51 is it sets on 3 points so foundation issues don't really translate into the casting and affect machine accuracy. This was one of the reasons I really liked the A51 over other makes.

 

The reason Vericut's simulation is so fast is because the time and effort I have put into setting it up (tool libraries, etc...) Nothing goes on the A51 without running through Vericut first. If there isn't a Vericut tool list for the project, which can only be printed after a simulation, the project doesn't run on the machine, period. It is quick and easy to use and it doesn't slow the work flow one bit.

 

I couldn't agree more with having a solid verification package and using it for every setup!

 

When you say your foundation is crap does that mean 4-6 inches of concrete with little rebar?

[Guest]

120 tools seems to be the tipping point for most people, me included. The 133 tools that come on a Makino HMC would be a very nice attribute to have for our needs.

 

I wouldn't mind so much swapping tools in and out of the machine if i could do it quickly through a loading door. On my current machines I'm stuck loading at the spindle and it is a HUGE time waster. MDI, T1 M6, MPG mode, load tool, MDI, T2 M6, wait for it to index at every freakin tool position, MPG mode, load tool...

That is horrible. Nobody should have to suffer like that in this day and age of tool carousel/magazine doors. It's 2014 for goodness sakes.

 

The Matsuura MX machines have a nice door in the back where you can load your tools while the machine is in cycle.

[cincy k]

Will the 20k spindle on the mx520 still run a 2.5 inch face mill through say 4140 at a depth of .200? The torque and power curves look like it would. I just wonder about its ability to handle that kind of load consistently.

[Bob W.]

I couldn't agree more with having a solid verification package and using it for every setup!

 

When you say your foundation is crap does that mean 4-6 inches of concrete with little rebar?

 

Yep, something like that.

[Bob W.]

Both of my Makinos load tools through a loading door. I will never buy another machine that doesn't.

[Guest]

Will the 20k spindle on the mx520 still run a 2.5 inch face mill through say 4140 at a depth of .200? The torque and power curves look like it would. I just wonder about its ability to handle that kind of load consistently.

Full WOC? Just need to make sure I do the math right.

[cincy k]

Full WOC? Just need to make sure I do the math right.

 

80%. Just trying to determine whether that spindle still has enough a$$ for some lower rpm hogging if required on some materials that you have to run relatively low rpms. Ti 6-4 for one.

[cincy k]

Both of my Makinos load tools through a loading door. I will never buy another machine that doesn't.

 

Yeah I'm learning that the hard way, each and every day.

[mikenaturalice]

PM me and we could set up a WebEx session. I'm pretty sure I could get you going with the holders in fairly short order. What build are you on?

Thank you for the offer but I am no longer with that job.

[Guest]

We should be able to get to get 23 IPM x 2.0 WOC x.200 DOC @ 840 RPM (assuming .5 K Factor) out of it. We'd need to do a test cut though to be sure.

 

You don't have to machine Ti low and slow. There's WAY better ways to do it.

[Zoober]

Thanks for the help today James.

[Guest]

As always Zoob, it's my pleasure! :cheer:

 

If you ever want to, I can usually do WebEx or Skype pretty quick.

[cincy k]

Could you integrate a zero point system into the table on the mx520? So you don't loose travel range.

[Guest]

Could you integrate a zero point system into the table on the mx520? So you don't loose travel range.

I'll have to check.

[宏滨 高]

You are cattle！！！

[Guest]

You are cattle！！！

 

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