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Tool management software reccomendations.

specv

By specv,
in Industrial Forum

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Watcher Newbie

Watcher

Posted
Posted

Here goes another example of a single multi-tasking turning tool with 3 edges ('Steps' in Zoller) - You need to create this sort of file through the system - It´s the only format Zoller imports data from external systems.

    <ToolId>123456</ToolId>
    <Description>FERRAMENTA DE TORNEAR</Description>
    <TNo>15</TNo>
    <GraphicFile>aigner.dxf</GraphicFile>
    <GraphicGroup>4</GraphicGroup>
    <Lifetime>120</Lifetime>
    <DuploNo>1</DuploNo>
    <Wobble>False</Wobble>
    <DxfDisplayMode>0</DxfDisplayMode>
    <VerifiedForMeasuring>True</VerifiedForMeasuring>
    <IsLifetimeExpired>False</IsLifetimeExpired>
    <GraphicFile7>wdr2020l.DXF</GraphicFile7>
    <GraphicGroup7>4</GraphicGroup7>
    <DxfDoMirrowX>False</DxfDoMirrowX>
    <DxfDoMirrowY>False</DxfDoMirrowY>
    <DxfDoRotate>False</DxfDoRotate>
    <DxfRotateAngl>0</DxfRotateAngl>
    <AxialRunOut>False</AxialRunOut>
    <Article />
    <Machine>
    <MachineId>WFL MillTurn</MachineId>
    </Machine>
    <Step>
      <Position>1</Position>
      <CES>21</CES>
      <Focus>FocusArea.1</Focus>
      <MsrMode>Measure2dMoveCross</MsrMode>
      <MsrRangeWidth>3.6</MsrRangeWidth>
      <MsrRangeHeight>3.6</MsrRangeHeight>
      <ZNominal>200</ZNominal>
      <ZUpperTol>0.5</ZUpperTol>
      <ZLowerTol>-0.5</ZLowerTol>
      <ZRefMode>0</ZRefMode>
      <ZDiaMode>0</ZDiaMode>
      <ZResMode>0</ZResMode>
      <XNominal>50</XNominal>
      <XUpperTol>0.5</XUpperTol>
      <XLowerTol>-0.5</XLowerTol>
      <XRefMode>0</XRefMode>
      <XDiaMode>0</XDiaMode>
      <XResMode>0</XResMode>
      <CResMode>0</CResMode>
      <RadiusNominal>1.2</RadiusNominal>
      <RadiusUpperTol>0.1</RadiusUpperTol>
      <RadiusLowerTol>-0.1</RadiusLowerTol>
      <RadiusResMode>0</RadiusResMode>
      <Angle1ResMode>0</Angle1ResMode>
      <Angle2ResMode>0</Angle2ResMode>
      <TwistAngle>0</TwistAngle>
      <TwistAngleIsAbsolute>True</TwistAngleIsAbsolute>
      <Type>500</Type>
      <Location>3</Location>
      <DoMeasure>True</DoMeasure>
      <DoPrint>True</DoPrint>
      <IsCheckStep>False</IsCheckStep>
      <TurnDirectionClockwise>False</TurnDirectionClockwise>
      <SearchFocusPosition>False</SearchFocusPosition>
      <SearchRunZ>False</SearchRunZ>
      <SearchRunZAddUpperTol>False</SearchRunZAddUpperTol>
      <SearchRunX>False</SearchRunX>
      <SearchRunXSide>0</SearchRunXSide>
      <SearchRunXMode>0</SearchRunXMode>
      <AutoEdgeCheck>False</AutoEdgeCheck>
      <AutoEdgeCheckTransmittedLight>False</AutoEdgeCheckTransmittedLight>
      <YRefMode>0</YRefMode>
      <YDiaMode>0</YDiaMode>
      <YResMode>0</YResMode>
      <DoLintFilter>False</DoLintFilter>
      <DoRotation>True</DoRotation>
      <DoIgnore>False</DoIgnore>
      <Inertia>0</Inertia>
      <DoInertia>False</DoInertia>
      <DoAngleMode>False</DoAngleMode>
      <AngleMode>1</AngleMode>
      <IsLifetimeExpired>False</IsLifetimeExpired>
      <CRefMode>0</CRefMode>
      <AnglePointResMode>0</AnglePointResMode>
      <DoLockSpindle>False</DoLockSpindle>
      <AutoRotateToEdges>True</AutoRotateToEdges>
      <AutoEdgeCheckReflectingCamera>False</AutoEdgeCheckReflectingCamera>
      <SearchRunY>False</SearchRunY>
      <DoRotationZ>False</DoRotationZ>
      <TILength1Wear>0</TILength1Wear>
      <TILength2Wear>0</TILength2Wear>
      <TIRadius1Wear>0</TIRadius1Wear>
      <TIXValueZero>False</TIXValueZero>
      <ZOutputOnP2>False</ZOutputOnP2>
    </Step>
    <Step>
      <Position>2</Position>
      <CES>23</CES>
      <Focus>FocusArea.1</Focus>
      <MsrMode>Measure2dCris360</MsrMode>
      <MsrRangeWidth>3.6</MsrRangeWidth>
      <MsrRangeHeight>3.6</MsrRangeHeight>
      <ZNominal>210</ZNominal>
      <ZUpperTol>0.3</ZUpperTol>
      <ZLowerTol>-0.3</ZLowerTol>
      <ZRefMode>0</ZRefMode>
      <ZDiaMode>0</ZDiaMode>
      <ZResMode>0</ZResMode>
      <XNominal>35</XNominal>
      <XUpperTol>0.75</XUpperTol>
      <XLowerTol>-0.75</XLowerTol>
      <XRefMode>0</XRefMode>
      <XDiaMode>0</XDiaMode>
      <XResMode>0</XResMode>
      <CResMode>0</CResMode>
      <RadiusNominal>1.6</RadiusNominal>
      <RadiusUpperTol>0.15</RadiusUpperTol>
      <RadiusLowerTol>-0.15</RadiusLowerTol>
      <RadiusResMode>0</RadiusResMode>
      <Angle1ResMode>0</Angle1ResMode>
      <Angle2ResMode>0</Angle2ResMode>
      <TwistAngle>120</TwistAngle>
      <TwistAngleIsAbsolute>True</TwistAngleIsAbsolute>
      <Type>500</Type>
      <Location>4</Location>
      <DoMeasure>True</DoMeasure>
      <DoPrint>True</DoPrint>
      <IsCheckStep>False</IsCheckStep>
      <TurnDirectionClockwise>False</TurnDirectionClockwise>
      <SearchFocusPosition>False</SearchFocusPosition>
      <SearchRunZ>False</SearchRunZ>
      <SearchRunZAddUpperTol>False</SearchRunZAddUpperTol>
      <SearchRunX>False</SearchRunX>
      <SearchRunXSide>0</SearchRunXSide>
      <SearchRunXMode>0</SearchRunXMode>
      <AutoEdgeCheck>False</AutoEdgeCheck>
      <AutoEdgeCheckTransmittedLight>False</AutoEdgeCheckTransmittedLight>
      <YRefMode>0</YRefMode>
      <YDiaMode>0</YDiaMode>
      <YResMode>0</YResMode>
      <DoLintFilter>False</DoLintFilter>
      <DoRotation>True</DoRotation>
      <DoIgnore>False</DoIgnore>
      <Inertia>0</Inertia>
      <DoInertia>False</DoInertia>
      <DoAngleMode>False</DoAngleMode>
      <AngleMode>1</AngleMode>
      <IsLifetimeExpired>False</IsLifetimeExpired>
      <CRefMode>0</CRefMode>
      <AnglePointResMode>0</AnglePointResMode>
      <DoLockSpindle>False</DoLockSpindle>
      <AutoRotateToEdges>True</AutoRotateToEdges>
      <AutoEdgeCheckReflectingCamera>False</AutoEdgeCheckReflectingCamera>
      <SearchRunY>False</SearchRunY>
      <DoRotationZ>False</DoRotationZ>
      <TILength1Wear>0</TILength1Wear>
      <TILength2Wear>0</TILength2Wear>
      <TIRadius1Wear>0</TIRadius1Wear>
      <TIXValueZero>False</TIXValueZero>
      <ZOutputOnP2>False</ZOutputOnP2>
    </Step>
    <Step>
      <Position>3</Position>
      <CES>42</CES>
      <Focus>FocusManual.2</Focus>
      <MsrMode>Measure2dMoveCenter</MsrMode>
      <MsrRangeWidth>3.6</MsrRangeWidth>
      <MsrRangeHeight>3.6</MsrRangeHeight>
      <ZNominal>450</ZNominal>
      <ZUpperTol>0.2</ZUpperTol>
      <ZLowerTol>-0.2</ZLowerTol>
      <ZRefMode>0</ZRefMode>
      <ZDiaMode>0</ZDiaMode>
      <ZResMode>0</ZResMode>
      <XNominal>85</XNominal>
      <XUpperTol>0.4</XUpperTol>
      <XLowerTol>-0.4</XLowerTol>
      <XRefMode>0</XRefMode>
      <XDiaMode>0</XDiaMode>
      <XResMode>0</XResMode>
      <CResMode>0</CResMode>
      <RadiusNominal>0.8</RadiusNominal>
      <RadiusUpperTol>0.7</RadiusUpperTol>
      <RadiusLowerTol>-0.7</RadiusLowerTol>
      <RadiusResMode>0</RadiusResMode>
      <Angle1ResMode>0</Angle1ResMode>
      <Angle2ResMode>0</Angle2ResMode>
      <TwistAngle>240</TwistAngle>
      <TwistAngleIsAbsolute>True</TwistAngleIsAbsolute>
      <Type>110</Type>
      <Location>1</Location>
      <DoMeasure>True</DoMeasure>
      <DoPrint>True</DoPrint>
      <IsCheckStep>False</IsCheckStep>
      <TurnDirectionClockwise>False</TurnDirectionClockwise>
      <SearchFocusPosition>False</SearchFocusPosition>
      <SearchRunZ>False</SearchRunZ>
      <SearchRunZAddUpperTol>False</SearchRunZAddUpperTol>
      <SearchRunX>False</SearchRunX>
      <SearchRunXSide>0</SearchRunXSide>
      <SearchRunXMode>0</SearchRunXMode>
      <AutoEdgeCheck>False</AutoEdgeCheck>
      <AutoEdgeCheckTransmittedLight>False</AutoEdgeCheckTransmittedLight>
      <YRefMode>0</YRefMode>
      <YDiaMode>0</YDiaMode>
      <YResMode>0</YResMode>
      <DoLintFilter>False</DoLintFilter>
      <DoRotation>True</DoRotation>
      <DoIgnore>False</DoIgnore>
      <Inertia>0</Inertia>
      <DoInertia>False</DoInertia>
      <DoAngleMode>False</DoAngleMode>
      <AngleMode>1</AngleMode>
      <IsLifetimeExpired>False</IsLifetimeExpired>
      <CRefMode>0</CRefMode>
      <AnglePointResMode>0</AnglePointResMode>
      <DoLockSpindle>False</DoLockSpindle>
      <AutoRotateToEdges>True</AutoRotateToEdges>
      <AutoEdgeCheckReflectingCamera>False</AutoEdgeCheckReflectingCamera>
      <SearchRunY>False</SearchRunY>
      <DoRotationZ>False</DoRotationZ>
      <TILength1Wear>0</TILength1Wear>
      <TILength2Wear>0</TILength2Wear>
      <TIRadius1Wear>0</TIRadius1Wear>
      <TIXValueZero>False</TIXValueZero>
      <ZOutputOnP2>False</ZOutputOnP2>
    </Step>
  </Tool>
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And this is the configuration file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes"?>
<!-- This file is used as an example. The comments are describing the
	various features and possibility of the Presetting Output File
	Description.-->
<PresettingDefinition id ="Multivision 3.0">
  <Title>Zoller Pilot 3.0</Title>
  <Author>DATOS Computer AG</Author>
  <Date>$LastChangedDate: 2010-06-25 13:51:58 +0200 (Fr, 25 Jun 2010) $</Date>
  <FileVersion>$Revision: 8157 $</FileVersion>
  <ModuleVersion>1.0</ModuleVersion>
 
 <Filename>
    <!-- The output file name and output file path can be defined here. Wintool will use
    	the values of the defined database fields as a file path/name in a top down
    	manner starting with the first one and skipping it if empty and continuing with 
    	the next one. If no values are found the default value is used.
  
	Sample 1:
		<Filename field="ToolList.FileName" default="MyFile.txt"/>
	
	Sample 2:
		<AnyOf>
			<Value field1="ToolLists.Filename" />
			<Value field2="ToolLists.Order" />
			<Value field3="ToolLists.NCP" />
			<Value field4="ToolLists.Ident" />
			<Data  type="XML" output="${id}${value}.xml\n"/>
			<Value default="C:\Program Files\DATOS\WINTOOL2011\Preset.txt"/>
			<Value default="C:\Program Files\DATOS\WINTOOL2011\Preset.txt"/>
		</AnyOf>
	-->
  	<AnyOf>
		<Value field="ToolLists.NCP" />
		<Value field="ToolLists.Ident" />
	 </AnyOf>
  </Filename>
	<!-- File extension -->
	<PresetExtension value="xml" />
	<PresetInput value=".\DXF" /> 

	<Formatting>
    <!-- The decimal point setting is wrapped into "locale" tag -->
    <Locale decimal_point="."/>
    <!-- Applied for all data tags with unspecified type, if not overriden in tag itself.
         Meaning of this "output" string: the output will be prefixed with data tag "id"
         attribute value followed by the data value, if "format" attribute is not set, or
         value formatted according to "format" attribute.
         "format" attribute should be in prinf-compatible syntax but without 
         leading '%' character. -->
    <Data output="${id}${value}\n" />
    <!--Data type defitnition "Title": wrapping the {value} with brackets ( and )-->
    <Data type="Title" output="(${value})\n"/>
    <!--Data type defitnition "line": just writing the {value}, without leading "id"-->
    <Data type="line" output="${value}\n"/>
    <!--Data type definition "float": the format defintion means:
    	+:	explicit +/- sign
    	0:	left padded with zeros
    	8:	length
    	.3:	precision (3 digits after decimal point)
    	f:	floating number-->
    <Data type="float" output="${id}${value}\n" format="+08.3f" />
    <!--Data type definition "DXF": adding the string ".dxf" to {value}-->
    <Data type="DXF" output="${id}${value}.dxf\n"/>
    <Data type="XML" output="<${id}>${value}</${id}>\n"/>
    <Data type="XMLLine" output="<${id}${value}.Program${value}">\n"/>
    <Data type="XMLDXF" output="<${id}>${value}.dxf</${id}>\n"/>
	<Data type="XMLValue" output="<${id}>${value}</${id}>\n" format="+8.3f"/>
  </Formatting>

<Definition>
   <ToolList>
	  <Data type="line" value="<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes"?>"/>
      <Data type="line" value="<Data>"/>
      <Data type="line" value="<SettingSheet>"/>
	    <Data type="XML" id="SettingSheetId" field="ToolLists.Ident"/>
	    <Data type="XML" id="Name" field="ToolLists.Descript"/>
	    <Data type="XML" id="PartNo" field="ToolLists.Ident"/>
		<Data type="XML" id="NCProgrammNo" field="ToolLists.NCP"/>
	   	<Data type="XML" id="FixtureDrawingFilePath" field="ToolLists.Order"/>
	    <Data type="XML" id="Programmer" field="ToolLists.Who"/>
		<Data type="XML" id="MachineName" field="Machines.Name"/>
	    <Data type="line" value="<Adapter>"/>   
	    <Data type="XML" id="AdapterId" field="Machines.PresetAdapter"/>
	    <Data type="line" value="</Adapter>"/>
	    <Data type="line" value="<Machine>"/>
	    <Data type="XML" id="MachineId" field="Machines.PresetAdapter"/>
	    <Data type="line" value="</Machine>"/>
	    <ToolAssembly>
		  <Data type="line" value="<ToolList>"/>   
	        <Data type="line" value="<ToolInList>"/>   
			  <Data type="XML" id="Position" field="ToolList.T"/>
		  	  <Data type="line" value="<Tool>"/>
              <Data type="line" value="<ToolGroupTree>"/>                      
		      <!-- <Data type="XML" id="GroupId" field="Tools.C5"/> -->
		      <Data type="XML" id="GroupID" value="WinTool"/>  
			  <Data type="line" value="<Description>"/>   
              <Data type="line" value="</Description>"/>   
              <Data type="line" value="</ToolGroupTree>"/>       
              <Data type="line" value="<ToolGroup>"/>   
			  <!-- <Data type="XML" id="GroupId" field="Tools.C5"/> -->          
              <Data type="XML" id="GroupId" value="WinTool"/>  
			  <Data type="line" value="</ToolGroup>"/>   
		  	  <Data type="XML" id="ToolId" field="Tools.Nr"/>
			  <Data type="XML" id="Description" field="Tools.Descript"/>
			  <Data type="XML" id="TNo" field="TooliList.T"/>
			  <Data type="DXF" id="" field="Tools.Nr"/> 
			  <Data type="XMLDXF" id="GraphicFile" field="Tools.Nr"/>
			  <!-- <Data type="XML" id="GraphicGroup" field="Tools.C5"/> -->  
			  <Data type="XML" id="GraphicGroup" value="WinTool"/>  
			  <Data type="XML" id="Weigth" field="Tools.Weight"/>  
              <Data type="XML" id="Lifetime" field="ToolList.Time"/>  
			  <Data type="XML" id="RemainingLifetime" field="WarningThreshold"/>  
			  <Data type="XML" id="MagazinPosition" field="ToolList.D"/>
              <Data type="XML" id="DuploNo" field="ToolList.S"/>
              <Data type="XML" id="CollisionL1" field="Tools.LColl"/>
              <Data type="XML" id="CollisionR2" field="Tools.RColl"/>
         	  <Data type="XML" id="Tag" field="Tools.WK"/>                         
              <Data type="line" value="<Adapter>"/> 
              <Data type="XML" id="AdapterId" field="Tools.SpecialAdapter"/>          
			  <Data type="line" value="</Adapter>"/>                 	
			  <CuttingEdge1>
			  <Data type="line" value="<Step>"/> 
			    <Data type="XML" id="Position" value="1"/>
			   	<Data type="XML" id="CountEdges" field="Tools.Measure1"/>	
				<Data type="XML" id="CES" field="Tools.Form1"/>				     
			    <Data type="XML" id="Focus" value="FocusArea.1"/>
				<Data type="XML" id="XDiaMode" value="1"/>
				<!--XDiaMod 0=Value in Radius; 1=Value in DM -->
				<Data type="XMLValue" id="ZNominal" field="Tools.Z1"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="ZUpperTol" field="Tools.Z1Max"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="ZLowerTol" field="Tools.Z1Min"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="XNominal" field="Tools.X1"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="XUpperTol" field="Tools.X1Max"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="XLowerTol" field="Tools.X1Min"/>										
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="RadiusNominal" field="Tools.CRadius"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="RadiusUpperTol" field="Tools.R1Max"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="RadiusLowerTol" field="Tools.R1Min"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="Angle1Nominal" field="Tools.AngleA"/>
			    <Data type="XMLValue" id="Angle2Nominal" field="Tools.AngleB"/>						
			    <Data type="XML" id="TwistAngle" field="Tools.Range1"/>				     
			    <Data type="XMLLine" id="MsrProgram OwnerTypeFullName="Zoller.Program.Program" field="Tools.Prog1" default="0000"/>
				<Data type="line" value="</MsrProgram>"/>
			  <Data type="line" value="</Step>"/> 
			  </CuttingEdge1>
			  <CuttingEdge2>
			  <Data type="line" value="<Step>"/> 
                <Data type="XML" id="Position" value="2"/>
			    <Data type="XML" id="CountEdges" field="Tools.Measure2"/>	
				<Data type="XML" id="CES" field="Tools.Form2"/>
				<Data type="XML" id="Focus" value="FocusArea.1"/>			   
			   	<Data type="XML" id="XDiaMode" value="1"/>
				<!--XDiaMod 0=Value in Radius; 1=Value in DM -->
				<Data type="XMLValue" id="ZNominal" field="Tools.Z2"/>
				<Data type="XMLValue" id="XNominal" field="Tools.X2"/>
			    <Data type="XML" id="TwistAngle" field="Tools.Range2"/>				     
			    <Data type="XMLLine" id="MsrProgram OwnerTypeFullName="Zoller.Program.Program" field="Tools.Prog2" default="0000"/>
				<Data type="line" value="</MsrProgram>"/>
			  <Data type="line" value="</Step>"/> 
			  </CuttingEdge2>
              <CuttingEdge3>
			  <Data type="line" value="<Step>"/> 
                <Data type="XML" id="Position" value="3"/>
	      	    <Data type="XML" id="CountEdges" field="Tools.Measure3"/>	
				<Data type="XML" id="CES" field="Tools.Form3"/>
			    <Data type="XML" id="Focus" value="FocusArea.1"/>
				<Data type="XML" id="XDiaMode" value="1"/>
				<!--XDiaMod 0=Value in Radius; 1=Value in DM -->
				<Data type="XMLValue" id="ZNominal" field="Tools.Z3"/>
				<Data type="XMLValue" id="XNominal" field="Tools.X3"/>
			    <Data type="XML" id="TwistAngle" field="Tools.Range3"/>
			    <Data type="XMLLine" id="MsrProgram OwnerTypeFullName="Zoller.Program.Program" field="Tools.Prog3" default="0000"/>
				<Data type="line" value="</MsrProgram>"/>
			  <Data type="line" value="</Step>"/> 
		      </CuttingEdge3>
			 <Data type="line" value="</Tool>"/> 	
       	  <Data type="line" value="</ToolInList>"/> 	    
        <Data type="line" value="</ToolList>"/> 	    
       </ToolAssembly> 
	  <Data type="line" value="</SettingSheet>"/>  
     <Data type="line" value="</Data>"/> 	    
   </ToolList>
 </Definition>
</PresettingDefinition>
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Zoober Newbie

Zoober

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't every system have the same issue with info sharing? XML is actually a pretty friendly import language.

When I worked with cribmaster, you could set up rule files for import/export.

Crystal reports supports XML easily, and can map different data sources pretty easily.

Now, that being said, I do see that Cribmaster has been bought by Stanley, and I have no idea how good the software or support is now.

But when Winware owned them, I was able to talk to developers directly. The support was off the hook good. And covered under standard maintenance.

2 day services packs were not out of the ordinary.

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Watcher Newbie

Watcher

Posted
Posted

Lol... it sounds so easy the way you guys put... but I really wonder how a system with no 'off the shelf' interface with a Zoller presseter, so to speak, can really grasp the minimum range of combinations that are required to measure regular tools in a shop.

 

Trust me, it is way harder than you think. One of the reasons Wintool Zoller interface is cumbersome is because Zoller software has thousands of possible combinations in regards measurement parameters.

 

So if you are OK with the user having to remember by heart the dozens of possible values that each of the other dozens of parameters can accept, then it would work. I'm sure a parallel system like to spreadsheet would be used with it, unless the grammer is an elephant.

 

It's not hard to see people taking this path and end up not using it at all after a few .onths of pain.

 

From.my experience, in the end tool assemblers end up doing the job themselves.

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Zoober Newbie

Zoober

Posted
Posted

That's my point, Daniel. Won't everybody have the same issues? Unless Zoller themselves provide import rules or roadmaps, all of the crib players are at an equal disadvantage. Until somebody -Parlec, et al come up with an easier way to conjoin. Then you will see Zoller as an outcast.

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jlw™ Newbie

jlw™

Posted
Posted

Lol... it sounds so easy the way you guys put... but I really wonder how a system with no 'off the shelf' interface with a Zoller presseter, so to speak, can really grasp the minimum range of combinations that are required to measure regular tools in a shop.Trust me, it is way harder than you think. One of the reasons Wintool Zoller interface is cumbersome is because Zoller software has thousands of possible combinations in regards measurement parameters.So if you are OK with the user having to remember by heart the dozens of possible values that each of the other dozens of parameters can accept, then it would work. I'm sure a parallel system like to spreadsheet would be used with it, unless the grammer is an elephant. It's not hard to see people taking this path and end up not using it at all after a few .onths of pain. From.my experience, in the end tool assemblers end up doing the job themselves.

Yeah, then throw data tags in the mix. Then get your 810D, every flavor of Fuhnook, Allen Bradley and Acramatic 2100 to read said data and apply it to their unique tables...

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The Cathedral Newbie

The Cathedral

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Posted

Both are able to do it. We have WinTool Logistics Module that takes care of all these tasks. We don't have RFID though. But it is supported for sure. But in order to use the Logistics module well, we had to go through a lot of pain to have the necessary discipline. When I comes to your tooling logistics, software can help but the real difference comes from people's attitude towards the golden rules.

 

What do you mean by "a lot of pain"? Unhappy and unwilling employees? Or learning the way the software works?

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The Cathedral Newbie

The Cathedral

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I did all that with cribmaster. I had live tool libraries that I could bring into mastercam. Used RFID. Every machine was a crib, and had vending machines, a master tool crib, tool boss, etc. over 10,000 tools. All available to import directly into MCX.

Do a search here. I went into it in detail. It was a few years ago.

 

I tried searching and couldn't find it. I found your posts when you were just starting to investigate Cribmaster, but nothing beyond that.

 

How much work did you have to do yourself to make it work the way you wanted?

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specv Newbie

specv

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I am currently talking to all three again, Zoller, TDM and Wintool. Daniel, so the zoller interface does not even work right with wintool or just a pain to implement? I need both MC and Zoller to talk to this system, maybe i need to check zollers interface again.

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Watcher Newbie

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The interface works well, but it´s not intuitive. The possible parameters are most of times not available in comboboxes (This is also because each Zoller machine is unique and not all options are the same for all machines, so the cfg is based on the XML file I show above) and the Wintool UI does not make much validation of what combinations you set as Zoller does, so if you enter a bad combination WinTool will create the tool list for Zoller and the presseter will spit it out when it loads it...

 

In short: It works, but it´s heavily dependent on the jockey. In our experience, we end up doing reverse engineering: We set the parameters the way they should be in Zoller and then populate WinTool alike.

 

WinTool service and support is excellent. But make sure you get a good SLA/Maintenance contract where service fees and everything is discussed in advance. It´s not uncommon to hear from them that they´re a for profit company and can´t afford charity, even for small mods or help with building a custom report. For almost everything we want to have changed, we have to pay. This does not apply to bug fixes though.

 

WinTool is a very decent and fairly priced Tool Management Software, including it´s high quality CAM interfaces. If I could ask for something to be better, it would be the presseter module. Make a fair evaluation and ask them the right questions, as most customers overlook this topic during evaluations and are fine with the 'we can do it'. In almost everything else, it´s a very nice system.

 

Presseter integration is a complex topic. Based on what I know about the database structures in the Zoller Pilot Software and WinTool/TDM databases, all software out there but Zoller´s must require a detailed evaluation, as the nature of the problem is complex.

 

But just in case, check how Zoller software drives a Zoller machine as well...

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Zoober Newbie

Zoober

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I tried searching and couldn't find it. I found your posts when you were just starting to investigate Cribmaster, but nothing beyond that.

 

How much work did you have to do yourself to make it work the way you wanted?

Lots. You need to do like any other database of substance. Create the data tree, gather the data, and input the data. Custom fields, queries, handshaking, etc. about 2 years to implement.
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David Colin Enthusiast

David Colin

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I just met (yesterday) Zoller for its tms software (looks like pilot3.0 for presetting). I only watched a video of mastercam interface (I think it should do the job to filter/select tools). I watched a live demo of vericut interface that looked pretty smooth and fast (Ok for milling tools but they re still working on lathe tools import) . Software looked as powerful as others and of course there should nt be any problem to read/write zoller database...

Any users here? Pros/cons?

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Watcher Newbie

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Software looked as powerful as others and of course there should not be any problem to read/write zoller database...

Any users here? Pros/cons?

 

You can´t have the maturity of a 20 years old product in a 6 years old one. Last time (3 years ago) I saw Zoller TMS it was a baby.

 

Since they don´t have big traction in the market yet, I highly doubt they hired 30 developers after the demo I saw.

 

I hope I´m wrong.

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crazy^millman Veteran

crazy^millman

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50 developers?

 

Mastercam didn´t have that much last time I heard... Delcam had the record with more than 100 developers...

 

I´m getting old...

 

I think you heard wrong about CNC Software they have more than 50 the last time I got a number, but will let someone official comment on that if they feel so inclined to do so.

 

I head from the CTO of Hexagon they had over 400 working PC DMIS which explain a lot in my opinion.

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specv Newbie

specv

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Digging up an old thread, We decided on Wintool, thanks to all who contributed to this topic. It will be a very long process of entering data but will be so worth it in long run. Daniel, I'm sure i will have some questions for you about this.

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crazy^millman Veteran

crazy^millman

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Digging up an old thread, We decided on Wintool, thanks to all who contributed to this topic. It will be a very long process of entering data but will be so worth it in long run. Daniel, I'm sure i will have some questions for you about this.

 

I think you made a good choice. It is a good product from all the information I have gathered.

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Watcher Newbie

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It´s a good product.

 

We have it in the last 5 years or so. I´m right now writing a massive .NET application to sanitize our database and populate from an Excel spreadsheet some data that is required by the logistics module, which we have but don´t use.

 

This is the so called AD tab on the component definition (Administrative data)

 

My experiences building a database and what I´d like to know when we started:

 

  • Put your best effort in filling all key fields in the component definition. It´s much harder later to update thousands of components when you want to use some of its advanced functionalities and extra modules. In any Tool Management database, the availability and the quality of the information you store is key to maximize what the software can do for your company.
  • Critical data is almost all fields in the AD tab (Component) - You will thank me for this advice someday.
  • Go with WinTool implementation services if possible and use their proven knowledge. We used here and we´re up fast, but we neglected a few items back then and now it´s a major work to get it Ok. (But my magic application will do some miracles I can´t believe myself - But remember you won´t have it! :harhar: )
  • Keep your rules and naming conventions simple, but enforce them as hell. Don´t allow users to break them, and if they do, hit them on the nose. A database grows fast and if you allow complacency, you will NOT use it to its fullest potential. Not even close. And don´t blame the product later.
  • Stay up-to-date as much as possible. WinTool is coding some cool stuff and always fixing/improving the product.
  • This one almost all neglect: Make sure you are using the measure points to show your presset locations in the automatic drawings WinTool generate. They are defined as components, but have a special definition (Measure point checkbox marked on the component 'Assembly' tab. If you add them to your tool assembly BOM, WinTool will generate drawings using parametric definitions. I can tell a shop uses WinTool modestly or highly well by simply seeing this on their tool drawings. This makes tool assembler job easier, and avoid crashes and bad pressets. Don´t look at WinTool as a tool for NC-Programmers only. It is a complete tool management solution, and communication platform.

Those are the points I can remember now...

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