Scales no scales

[THEE THAINZ™]

   If you were to be forced to get a VF 8 HAAS and it was going to have a trunion would you get it with or without scales? Some parts will weigh up to 400 lbs. 

 

I would go scales but some above (management) do not see the advantage.

[Bob W.]

Lipstick on a pig...  I would get the scales, it can only help.  Without scales on a machine that size I would guess the error could be as large as .004-.005"?  On my VM3 'mold machine, LOL' I ran tests and measures .002" shift over an hour due to the ball screws heating and that had 40" X travel.  With multi-axis work the error is magnified big time (2X).  Make sure you get the probe and if the tolerances are tight you will need to have in-process probing to reset the offsets and minimize the error.

[Bob W.]

Picture a 2 year old with his mouth locked shut as his mom tries to feed him broccoli, mashing the spoon into his closed mouth saying "EAT THE DAMN BROCCOLI".  That would be me if someone was trying to GIVE me a Haas

[Newbeeee™]

Yup scales. Cost probably isn't much more on that size of machine?

[mkd]

ran a VF7 cat50 for years. did some 80 x 20 x 15 alum landing gear spars and some Ti parts roughly the same size.

400lbs will be no problem

personally, i would be more concerned with the durability of a Haas 5ax trunnion.

unless they've changed something they're all made with smallish worms and brass gears.

ok for positioning and the occasional swarf...but not for serious production.

if i had to choose, id take the money from the scales and get a koma 5ax on it.

[dstryr]

Local shop I help out has a big HAAS Trunion. They are $40-50k to rebuild and right now his doesnt repeat worth a xxxx in either A or C. Its just a $40k paperweight.

[THEE THAINZ™]

Thanks pretty much hearing what I already new but before I show my boss more opinions from more people please. He trusts me but the problem is there are other influences (political/professional etiquette) to persuade.

[THEE THAINZ™]

Newbeeee they rip ya good on the cost $19000.00 for them. And with needing to hold true position tolerances of 0.004" HAAS would not be my first choice. Beggars cannot be choosers.

[mkd]

Local shop I help out has a big HAAS Trunion. They are $40-50k to rebuild and right now his doesnt repeat worth a xxxx in either A or C. Its just a $40k paperweight.

Guessing he already knows about indexing the worm bushings to take the lash out, so I won't mention it.

Ask me how I know.

I know and outfit down here that is approved to do rotary rebuilds. That's usually only at the factory. Just sayin

 

[GoetzInd]

You don't have to get a haas trunnion on a haas. The haas dealer here is a re-seller for Nikken and push those.

 

Mike

[?Mark]

When we inquired about Haas and asked the local dealer (haas and makino dealer) about glass scales on them, we were told that if we really needed a glass scales to just get a makino.

Like Bob said, "lipstick on a pig" LOL :-)

 

Having said that, out matsuura 5axis has glass scales standard

[THEE THAINZ™]

I cannot complain much about the place I work. We own 1 in house machine shop (where I work) and 2 outside machine shops. Unfortunately one of them before we purchased them was a HAAS only shop (heaviest influencer). Very closed minded to any kind of change when it comes to machines. I understand people not wanting multiple machines to a point, but limiting yourself to one type is to me the same as only using one type of endmill or shell mill. I do not know how many times I have told SANDVIK, WALTER, ISCAR FOR SHELL MILLS or imco, or MA FORD, or WIDIA for endmills reps that I will not keep only 1 type of endmill, drill or shellmill. I see it the same way with machine tools. Buy what meets your needs don't worry about the different controls or posts. If you really know what your doing in the long run it won't make a difference but the machines capabilities will.

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

^^ its always a good thing to have lots of tools in the tool box cuz ya just never know when you might need something a little different  to get something done .

[Newbeeee™]

I cannot complain much about the place I work. We own 1 in house machine shop (where I work) and 2 outside machine shops. Unfortunately one of them before we purchased them was a HAAS only shop (heaviest influencer). Very closed minded to any kind of change when it comes to machines. I understand people not wanting multiple machines to a point, but limiting yourself to one type is to me the same as only using one type of endmill or shell mill. I do not know how many times I have told SANDVIK, WALTER, ISCAR FOR SHELL MILLS or imco, or MA FORD, or WIDIA for endmills reps that I will not keep only 1 type of endmill, drill or shellmill. I see it the same way with machine tools. Buy what meets your needs don't worry about the different controls or posts. If you really know what your doing in the long run it won't make a difference but the machines capabilities will.

Fully understand about compromise between machines or cutters.

We specifically setup the business with pairs of machines, so if a job was urgent and a machine went down, we could swap the job onto the other machine and get it out with minimal disruption.

We ended up with 4 Chevaliers (all identical control/spindle/10k) and grid shifted with Z to grid table height, so any 4th axis can go on any machine and the G10 datums in the prog so load and go.

We bought 2 turning centres (Siemens shopturn) both identical makes with same chuck and VDI turret, so everything is identical for progs and tooling.

We just sold both Robodrills and now have 3x Feeler 510's with 30tools and 15k spindles - our highspeed ally cell.

It's worked really well and where we are short on people ('cus we multiman), it's easier to go from machine to machine because the buttons are all in the same place.

And when something goes wrong, fault finding is a whole lot easier because as you get to know the machines, them being the same makes it a whole lot simpler.

[THEE THAINZ™]

Yes, if your going to step up to the 5 axis world buy machines that are going to exceed your needs at the moment, you'll grow into them if your business thrives and grows. Keep the HAAS machine for the normal stuff but step up on the 5 axis pair them up for easy quick swaps and set ups but to ignore any other type of machine is closed minded. Now I have not been in the room when the talks have happened but I have talked to one of the programmers and it's from him I have my opinions of whats going on. Just hate to see regret in 5 years when the machines cannot deliver what is being asked of them and the work still being tried to be put on them.