Help with 2d HST and Axis substitution

[kunfuzed]

I am xforming a 2d hst using axis sub around a cylinder on a 4th axis rotary.  The code is running the same path 20 times in the same spot instead of moving 18 degrees each time.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

EDIT: 18 times at 20 DEG.... lol

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[Rstewart]

What are your settings on the other Transform page?

[kunfuzed]

Which other one?  I thought I posted both pages...

 

thanks

[kunfuzed]

For added info, I also have a 2d contour, without axis sub, in the same Xform operation that postitions as it should... so I believe it's some conflict with the axis substitution...

[Rstewart]

Sorry, yeah I don't see anything wrong?

 

 

I've had trouble with some transformed axis substitution paths back in like X6 or X7 days.   Just as of recently I'm not a MC user anymore, or I would try it in MC2017.

[kunfuzed]

Thanks for looking at it.  I've got it in with my reseller, and in the mean time switched to a multi axis flow, which is working, but I have to leave stock on the floor and come back in and clean it with a surface toolpath.  I would really like to know how to get this to work, or get similar results from a Multiaxis Roughing toolpath.

[crazy^millman]

Thanks for looking at it.  I've got it in with my reseller, and in the mean time switched to a multi axis flow, which is working, but I have to leave stock on the floor and come back in and clean it with a surface toolpath.  I would really like to know how to get this to work, or get similar results from a Multiaxis Roughing toolpath.

 

What questions do you have on Multiaxis Roughing? That is a awesome toolpath. I can make it rough just about any round shape with ease now that I have wrapped my brain around how it works. Sorry no X9 on the new Laptop. Do you have 2017? If so I will be glad to make up some examples to show you how to go about using it on some different features.

 

For those that do have 2017 here is an example. Enjoy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6cw5cv815755he/5th%20Axis%20CGI%20MultiAxis%20Rough%20Example.zip?dl=0

[kunfuzed]

What questions do you have on Multiaxis Roughing? That is a awesome toolpath. I can make it rough just about any round shape with ease now that I have wrapped my brain around how it works. Sorry no X9 on the new Laptop. Do you have 2017? If so I will be glad to make up some examples to show you how to go about using it on some different features.

 

For those that do have 2017 here is an example. Enjoy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6cw5cv815755he/5th%20Axis%20CGI%20MultiAxis%20Rough%20Example.zip?dl=0

I'll try and post an example tomorrow!  Thanks!

[kunfuzed]

What questions do you have on Multiaxis Roughing? That is a awesome toolpath. I can make it rough just about any round shape with ease now that I have wrapped my brain around how it works. Sorry no X9 on the new Laptop. Do you have 2017? If so I will be glad to make up some examples to show you how to go about using it on some different features.

 

For those that do have 2017 here is an example. Enjoy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6cw5cv815755he/5th%20Axis%20CGI%20MultiAxis%20Rough%20Example.zip?dl=0

Here's the link: ftp://[email protected]/Mastercam_forum/X9_Files/WHEEL.mcx-9

 

The 2d HST path has the exact motion I want, but does not post correctly, just repeats over and over at the same spot. (when posted, it actually backplots correctly)

 

This is all I'm able to get the Multiaxis Roughing path to do.  I would really like to know how to get it to behave like the 2d HST.

 

The goal, obviously, is to rough between the lugs after a lathe op.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

EDIT:  We're stuck at X9 for now... waiting on IT for 2017...

[crazy^millman]

You understand how to use the MultiAxis Rough toolpath, but it will not cut like you want. It is meant for closed shaped not open ended shapes. I would do it the exactly the way you are doing it. I took your program and use the default HAAS post and got the same results you got. I brought it into 2018 and tried it on a couple different newer 2018 posts and got the same results. You sir have found a major bug and I will report it using 2018 and this file as the example. You will have to create planes on each index and create individual operations for each place you are trying to accomplish this work. Yes more work, but I like the 2D HST toolpaths to do exactly what you are trying to do. Be mindful of the retract and back feed.Everything should be in feed rate and not rapid for this toolpath to work correctly on a 4th Axis. You look like you have that under control, but wanted to point it out to you to be mindful of it if you were not.

 

Suggestion would be make the toolpath a sub program and then just call the index you want fro main program if you want to save some hassle creating all the planes and operations.

[kunfuzed]

Hey thanks Ron!  Makes me feel a lot better to hear that's a bug, lol.  I'll give my reseller a heads up on that as well.

 

And thanks for the pointers!

 

That is kind of a bummer that the Multiaxis Rough wont behave like that.  Maybe that's a worthy enhancement request?

[crazy^millman]

Hey thanks Ron!  Makes me feel a lot better to hear that's a bug, lol.  I'll give my reseller a heads up on that as well.

 

And thanks for the pointers!

 

That is kind of a bummer that the Multiaxis Rough wont behave like that.  Maybe that's a worthy enhancement request?

 

Maybe, but you are asking for open pocket type of support and what you did with the 5 Axis toolpath would be about the same type of output is my thoughts. The 2D HST process is in my opinion the best way to go about that method. Hopefully those types of method get adopted into 5 Axis roughing. I like the Multi axis toolpath, but you have to work within its limits.

[kunfuzed]

Oh hey, one more question.  Was the bug in the 2d HST Axis sub, or in trying to Xform it?  I can not get the code to post the tool path itself in the right spot, it's about 90 degrees off.

 

Thanks again for the Help!  Really appreciate it.

[crazy^millman]

Oh hey, one more question.  Was the bug in the 2d HST Axis sub, or in trying to Xform it?  I can not get the code to post the tool path itself in the right spot, it's about 90 degrees off.

 

Thanks again for the Help!  Really appreciate it.

 

Axis Sub has always been quirky. You have your 2 chains drawn, but the problem is their placement. Old school Axis wrapping trick I use to fix this problem. The diameter you are using is 8.39. The Circumference = π (Pi) × diameter = 2 × π(Pi) × radius. So we do some basic math and come up that line we need to create to represent that distance unwrapped.

 

8.39 x 3.14159 = 26.35794. We draw that line from the origin in the Y Negative direction. Now we use Point Segment to draw points equal distance to divide into 4 parts. We will use the Number 5. Now you use the transform operations to transform the 2 lines 90 degrees in A, but are using the points in Y to accomplish that task. Yes seems odd, but this is how I use to program rolldie parts for years, before I got CAM. I would do all the math and trig all this stuff out to know exactly where my tool needed to be down to the arc second. I would then convert that to decimal degrees and good to go.

 

HTH

[crazy^millman]

One other thing is I would change the process to standard peel and get away from dynamic peel. You are creating extra cuts in the corner that is really not needed. Just extend you chains for make the toolpath cut longer and give standard peel a try here I think you will like the results better than dynamic peel.

[kunfuzed]

Thanks again Ron!  My reseller was also trying to describe that method, but like you said I may have "unrolled" them into the wrong place. 

[crazy^millman]

Here is a response I got from QC. See if this helps you.

 

https://kb.mastercam.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50169.aspx

 

Please note I think this process is the not the correct way to go about it and I think the post should do what the Backplot, Verify and machine sim all support.

 

I go back to the subroutines as the best method for now. Use the custom parameters from the Transform dialog to get the angle output at each sub program if you want an out of the box process from Mastercam without having to add the index angles into each sub program call.

[kunfuzed]

Thanks for the forwarding.  I'll have to create an account to read it though.  But yes, I will try your method in the future.

[crazy^millman]

Another thing you can do it transform translate the chains the angle distance you need. Then copy the operation 17 more times and use the chains at each place that will represent each index. Now you will get 18 indexes at each place you want and be done. No need for the planes like I originally said I was looking at it wrong.

[Jayson Kramer]

I have to see if it will work in X9 but as Ron stated it needs to think it is a closed area. so you can create a stock model with temp walls so it will thing it is closed and do the Multiaxs rough against it to get what you need.

[kunfuzed]

What's the best resource for learning how to use these Multiaxis paths?  To me the help file is just about useless for them....

[crazy^millman]

What's the best resource for learning how to use these Multiaxis paths?  To me the help file is just about useless for them....

 

Funny you ask this question as it is one I get quite often. I am self taught no formal training in Mastercam. I am just one of those people that has been blessed to have it come naturally to me. I like to teach and help others and why I offer as much advise and help as I do. I feel I need to give back to all of those who have helped me and I have learned from over the years. We all do so many different types of jobs and cover so many areas of manufacturing it is really hard for me to say.  I like to take a customer's part and teach them how to program 5 Axis on their parts with their machines. Books are great and help you understand how to use the software, but how to machine the part is what I teach. How to hold it, how to approach it and how to machine it. There is just some things a book can't teach and when someone sees how much passion I have for this industry and how positive I can stay even after being on a something for on the 33rd day they just get it. This is either something you want to do or not. I offer help and I need to make a living so I am blessed to have found something that allows me to do just that. Program parts and teach others how to do the same thing.

 

Sorry I don't have a better answer, but those who have worked with me can hopefully tell you I have always shared my knowledge and do my best to lift their skills and abilities. I still believe it is best to teach someone to fish than it is to give them a fish.

[gcode]

What's the best resource for learning how to use these Multiaxis paths?  To me the help file is just about useless for them....

The School of Hard Knocks

 

InHouse has a pretty good Advanced 5 axis tutorial that covers some of these toolpaths

They require a different way of thinking than the regular 5 axis toolpaths and it can be hard to get your head around them.

They are extremely powerful, but after 5 years of learning them, I'll bet I'm only using 10% of their capacity

[kunfuzed]

Funny you ask this question as it is one I get quite often. I am self taught no formal training in Mastercam. I am just one of those people that has been blessed to have it come naturally to me. I like to teach and help others and why I offer as much advise and help as I do. I feel I need to give back to all of those who have helped me and I have learned from over the years. We all do so many different types of jobs and cover so many areas of manufacturing it is really hard for me to say.  I like to take a customer's part and teach them how to program 5 Axis on their parts with their machines. Books are great and help you understand how to use the software, but how to machine the part is what I teach. How to hold it, how to approach it and how to machine it. There is just some things a book can't teach and when someone sees how much passion I have for this industry and how positive I can stay even after being on a something for on the 33rd day they just get it. This is either something you want to do or not. I offer help and I need to make a living so I am blessed to have found something that allows me to do just that. Program parts and teach others how to do the same thing.

 

Sorry I don't have a better answer, but those who have worked with me can hopefully tell you I have always shared my knowledge and do my best to lift their skills and abilities. I still believe it is best to teach someone to fish than it is to give them a fish.

Definitely wish there were resources such as yourself closer by to learn from!  But yes, just doing it more would probably help me.  I only do multiaxis maybe 5% of the time.  Also may look at picking up an Inhouse book too.

[David Colin]

There is a help file from Module works which explains multiaxis toolpaths options much better. There is not last revision though.

You can get it here: https://test.moduleworks.com/betaversions/downloads/Documentation/