Using large/long tools on a big plus CAT 40 HMC

[?Mark]

We're looking at adding another HMC machine. Obviously $ is a concern. This would replace/relief 630mm cat 50 Niigata HMC.

We have plenty of both cat 40 and cat 50 HMC machines, on which we cut aluminium mostly, but they are dedicated to certain families of parts.

I'm looking to mix it up a little...so my question is, what are your biggest cuts that you throw at a cat 40 HMC (say mori nhx5000 or similar).

I'm talking long length and heavy tools (1-2.5 inch dia and 6-10 inch long) and up to 3 inch dia drills that have to drill 12 inch deep.

 

What are the largest/longest tools you're using on a good quality big plus cat40 HMC?

Let's have some fun with it. Pictures of tools maybe?

 

TIA!

[Guest]

May not be a great example but currently using a 1.4" dia saw...between tool, holder and extension, it's just about 12" long

[?Mark]

Nice! That's 12" gage length?

How wide is the saw?

[Guest]

Nice! That's 12" gage length?

How wide is the saw?

 

Yup, only .062

[?Mark]

Not much width, but still, it's a full slot cut at 12" gage length. Thanks!

[crazy^millman]

CAT 40 with big plus would be good, but if I could get CAT 50 big plus with the MAX rpm for a machine I would take it over CAT 40. Easier to get smaller and be stronger than go bigger and be stronger. I have seen someone use a 4" Face Mill with 10" gage length on CAT 40. They did replace 5 spindles in 4 years, but were convinced it was other things hurting the spindle. 3" drill on a CAT 40 big plus even in Aluminum is asking a lot. I would consider drillling 2" the max for a Mori to keep longevity on the spindle. Can it push a 3" drill sure, but what in the long run will help the performance and accuracy of the machine? HST toolpaths are a key part, but also having the RPMs and strength behind the holder is important also. Solid choice going big plus, but really at that flip a coin point. Doing a lot of small fillers and internal corners where smaller tools and more RPM is needed or is it deep cavaity bigger fillets and internal corners? That would be my driving decision maker.

[?Mark]

Ron, I completely agree with you on all points.

The choice for us at the moment is a used cat 50 vs a new cat 40 to help relief workload. 

In no way cat40 big plus is going to match cat50's rigidity, I see it everyday.

But... I'm very curious to see how everyone is successfully pushing cat40, especially cat 40 big plus.

[crazy^millman]

Well we have hung CAT40 big plus 2" Button tool 6" in the last couple months with a customer with no issues. New verses used makes it a real tough decision. The newer control is going to handle the bigger files sizes probably better than any used machine you are going to find. Get a 2 year warranty on it and take your chances. Maybe you get enough of the medium and smaller stuff on it to limit the issues.

[mkd]

I did a 6+" gage length arbor, 4" dia HSS wheel cutterS on a NH4000 with cat 40 regular holder even though the machine was dual contact.

 Ran pretty slow to get nice finish in Alum in one shot, so not exactly "pushing it"

 

 Ran 30,000 parts with the same TLO. Setup and forget about it.

[gcode]

The only CAT40 we have here is a right angle head.

We recently ran a gang tool setup on our RA head

Two  Ø3." x .08" wide wheel cutters spaced .06" apart on an 8" arbor.

It wasn't quick or pretty, but it worked

[Sticky]

 

I'm talking long length and heavy tools (1-2.5 inch dia and 6-10 inch long) and up to 3 inch dia drills that have to drill 12 inch deep.

 

TIA!

 

What you describe here is 50 taper work, unless you can deal with sub par surface finishes and replacing spindles. I'm not saying you can't take those cuts with a 40 taper, it's just not going to be a reliable long term solution.

[?Mark]

Sticky, I agree. Just trying to see how much the cat 40 is being successfully pushed.

[Newbeeee™]

Mark - can you swap the jobs about leaving the ones suited to your #50's and get the new #40 and put the suitable jobs on it?

New machine with warranty and new control etc yada yada blah blah...

[?Mark]

Yes, that's my general idea. However, I'd like to know just how far people are pushing the envelope of a cat40 hmc.

Example, on my 5axis matsuura cat40 big plus:

.750 dia rough em=8.3 GL

1.0 rough=10.3 GL

.986 lollipop=8.8 GL

.750 lollipop=8.6 GL

1.437 seco drill=11.5 GL

1.5 indexable cutter=8.0 GL

 

 Majority of tools 1/16 to 1.0 dia already are 5 to 10 inch GL as it is now

 

I am pushing it, but trying to see what others are doing as well.

[crazy^millman]

Yes, that's my general idea. However, I'd like to know just how far people are pushing the envelope of a cat40 hmc.

Example, on my 5axis matsuura cat40 big plus:

.750 dia rough em=8.3 GL

1.0 rough=10.3 GL

.986 lollipop=8.8 GL

.750 lollipop=8.6 GL

1.437 seco drill=11.5 GL

1.5 indexable cutter=8.0 GL

 

 Majority of tools 1/16 to 1.0 dia already are 5 to 10 inch GL as it is now

 

I am pushing it, but trying to see what others are doing as well.

 

I would have no issue using those tools on a CAT40 Big Plus HMC.

[Sticky]

 

 

1.0 rough=10.3 GL

1.5 indexable cutter=8.0 GL

 

 

 

These tools in aluminum pushed hard can break the envelope of 40 taper. If you are pushing the MRR in any hard material it will be easy to exceed the limits of the 40 taper interface with these size tools at those gage lengths.

 

To me it sounds like the 50T is going yield better results. But it's tough choosing between a used and new machine sometimes.

[absolute technologies]

got overhang? 20hp cuts with 80mm cutter on 27" devibe extension and #50 big plus spindle