Custom dovetail vs. 5 axis vise

[mkd]

looking to hold several 1.5 x 5 x 8" alum blanks on a tombstoned horizontal "standing up" in a vise-sorta method.

8" dimension would run along Y axis and multiple parts would also run along Y.

is there a cheap vise out there that would have the small squarish base that could be competitive in cost with fabricating a custom dovetail fixture?

 

[Guest]

Depends what you think is cheap....just bought four 5th Axis vises for $770/ea

[jlw™]

That's less than a Kurt 8in vise.

[mkd]

get a price break off their $1k units??

[mkd]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/45-vs-60-degree-dovetail-dovetail-fixture-326819/?highlight=dovetail

just seem like there should be a simple solution on the market, like what dstryr made^^^

 

http://fifthaxis.com/new.fifthaxis.com/wordpress/d221m/

these seem pretty cool but the $$$ adds up for 12 of them

[Guest]

This one here

 

http://fifthaxis.com/new.fifthaxis.com/wordpress/v75100/

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Raptor:

http://raptorworkholding.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=11&lang=en&limit=50&limitstart=0&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=6

But again, you're going to pay for it.

[mkd]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

Raptor:

http://raptorworkholding.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=11&lang=en&limit=50&limitstart=0&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=6

But again, you're going to pay for it.

..Dearly. boy they sure are proud of their stuff.  May be why TECO took them over?

[crazy^millman]

Really comes down to your shop rate and the work you have going on. Do you have downtime and want to maximize it? Made tooling for many years I needed, verse buying or having it made. I just had this conversation with a customer. Better to spend $40k on a double index table than trust they can make 4 sets of compound tooling needed to hold a part. What do you say? I have cut parts most of my life and making something is what a machinist does, but if I thought it would cost $60k to make the tooling then I would say yes the $40k is a good decision. Same see what does that cost represent to your company. Would spending over $9k be better with the mind set with you know it would take $20k to do it yourself or would it cost you $4k in time and Materials? Bottom line all business are to make money. I asked one customer if they were only going to start charging $10 million launch since that was the same thing they were asking me to do with my price. No one found it all that funny. I don't either, but it is related to what bring your company more value for the money? Can you spend the 18-24 hours of shop time making what you need really costing you 36-48 hours of lost productivity? At $60 then it is a no brainer. At $100/hr harder decision,  but at a $500 a hour shop rate then it becomes a no brainer to buy what you need.

[mkd]

yeah, I'm slow right now so the opportunity cost is not much of a factor, but cash out the door is a huge issue... and my overhead is not that high, so it seems like a good idea to come up with my own solution.

[crazy^millman]

3 hours ago, mkd said:

yeah, I'm slow right now so the opportunity cost is not much of a factor, but cash out the door is a huge issue... and my overhead is not that high, so it seems like a good idea to come up with my own solution.

There is that. 30 days if you can get terms on the work holding or 30 days on maybe $1000 in material. Doesn't it right and make it adjustable and you have a rock solid solution to use for years. I wouldn't cheap out maybe some 15-5 in  1025 condition. Send it out and have it black oxide coated. Think about something like the Steven's or some other clone of that. I made a dovetail setup for some parts where we have the dovetail on one side for 12 different part numbers and the mate on the other side with all the different hole patterns to hold them for the next operation. It was a good setup at the time for a VMC. Had it been on a HMC I would have done it differently.

Each part and each machine present it owns methods of go about fixturing the parts. There is many ways to accomplish the task, but at the end of the day as long as you can make money doing it then all is good. Amazes me people who get long term contracts and see the total project and go look at all the money they are going to make. Then once you do all the work and figure all the cost they are making $19/hr on the parts. I have to ask myself how can they keep a business running like that?

Time will tell what you can accomplish, but nothing like doing something yourself and being able to put your name on it. 👷🏻🚀🚀

[Brad Lisle]

Depending on how much side clearance you need you could make your own fixture using Mitee-Bite knife edge Pitbulls instead of dovetail. The clamping edge would dig into the material and suck it down. I have done several parts with this method and have not had a part get out yet.

[Newbeeee™]

+1 to make your own miteebite fixtures.

We occasionally do - we use Miteebite's screw with the offset head and make our own 'nut'

[RaiderX]

Am a fan of Techni-Grip myself, but other good options have been mentioned.

hopefully whatever you choose will work for other following jobs, the ROI will be realized pretty fast.

 

Doug

[mkd]

some great ideas; thanks!

I like the idea of the 5th axis vises where you don't have to do a dovetail prep operation, and their price is very competitive for a vise.

I'll spend some time looking at the Mitee-bites and Techni-grip stuff. This might be the perfect blend of purchased parts and customizing.

[BenK]

I would look into the new Raptor vise as long as you're at it. It has replaceable inserts as well as soft jaws giving you far more flexibility than any other on the market. 

 

Raptor

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I like to do a dovetail prep on hard materials like the 17-4 H900, since it's almost as hard as the vise jaws and doesn't imprint much.  It does seem to help a bit with rigidity.

[Newbeeee™]

42 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

I like to do a dovetail prep on hard materials like the 17-4 H900, since it's almost as hard as the vise jaws and doesn't imprint much.  It does seem to help a bit with rigidity.

We have 6 or 7 Lang vices. Specifically for the harder metals, we bought a couple of sets of spare jaws and machined away the top (serrated part) so the grip is smooth.

And we just hold on more stock.

We did this because we never purchased the hydraulic pre-form machine to put the 'dents' in the stock, and we noticed a rigidity issue on some parts because the jaws weren't going into the mtl enough - so more like point contacting.

So holding on plain jaws but a bit more stock has cured the rigidity, and we still have the benefit of a compact vice.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

The Lang vises are what I'm using, but dovetailing the stock and holding about 3mm of it.