I find it odd that CNC would even think of integrating into the cad world. I have seen from the majority of users here about how they like the cam only approach (faster to the machine and all that...). I was a long time integrated cad/cam user who due to job change switched to MC. Due to another change, I've since switched back to the integrated system (much prefered). It a whole other world out there with the integrated approach. I applaud CNC for the effort but be aware there are others with much more experience in this. I'm just surprized that some here want CNC to offer this...

>>i too like to see clean code and hate this stoping at the end of the lead extend. I used to just extend the geo but found it took to long so i use extend in lead in lead out. It makes me scratch my head bloody. Why cant the mcam programmers just change it. Just do it.<< Shawn it IS possible to have a post remove redundant moves. It's fairly complex though. The issue is it must internally post twice. Once to load buffers - the second to remove duplicate moves in those buffers. This is what I'm told from CNC Software. -- Bill

camathome, I have since left that job but... Spectrum http://www.multi-dnc.com/ did an excellent job wiring up machines and setting up the server. I used to be like most on the Predetor bandwagen but I really like spectrum for their level of expertise with odd or unique setups. We had a wide range of machines including Haas, Mori, Toshiba, and Hitachi Seiki. All were fitted wireless (very large shop). For older machines they offer a wireless "black box" that wires into the ports to provide two-way transfers. You cna send a little program from the machine that sets up the server to send the required files which reduces longs walks regardless of control make. They even have a unit with a built-in hardrive for local dnc and file storage. Very cool! Don't know the pricing but top notch profesionals all the way. -- Bill

The lost toolpaths was the issue - not IF he backed up. Yes we MUST backup. I think the op is looking for confirmation of a known problem. Period. -- Bill

Vincam, This is a known issue that I and others brought to the attention of QC last year (directly to CNC Software corporate). I was told the new Operation Manager was being totally revamped due to the problems with large operation lists. Has it? Sadly, instead of offering any help, you will be swiftly reminded about the importance of using the backup feature. (you do dont you?) Did you have many groups? That was the scenario with myself back on MCX2 mr1. The only answer for now is backup often... -- Bill

"If you want worldclass CAD and CAM in one package, you need to be looking at Catia or UG and writing a check for $30-$40K." As one who knows the pricing very well for the above mentioned products, I can tell you your absolutely wrong about the UG pricing. It's around the same as the SW MC bundle many have here. That said, the pool of affordable programming talent will lie in the SW/MC setup. That is the driving force for many shops. -- Bill

When CNC Sofware came out to visit, I gave them a list of bug fixes and enhancement requests. Right at the top of the enhancements was "Multiple solids for Verify". We machine a lot of weldments that are modeled with gaps for weld filler. Second was "Save-Some" with the ability to pick an output format other than MCX such as STL. -- Bill

Tim, What you suggest does work... Our case is there are several programmers working on many machines. The largest are 14 gantrys with 120-240 pkts each. We have many others, some of which use multiple tool pkt configurations for the same machines depending on the parts run. Some are even hand loads. We're trying to keep an interactive matrix of the tools. Many of the same tools are used in different machines. If a new process is implemented we need the ability to update all areas that use those tools. I've had several demos for various tool management software but no one here wants to cut a check let alone implement such a change. I envisioned a tie-in to the toolcrib as well since I've worked in that environment in the past. For now, everyone just copies the network folder to their local and moves on. -- Bill

Jeremy, Thanks for the feedback. I searched thru some old threads here and found this one from "gcode": "I have a library of about 60 custom tools complete with toolholder and the quill of the machines (really big horizontals with a W axis) I keep them on a folder on the network so all the programmers have access to them. I kept loosing the path to the files, so I moved all my tool libraries into that folder and made it my default tool folder. That solved the problem" -Gcode I hope they fix this issue soon. We are trying to create a large enterprize wide system for dozens of machines with hundreds of tools and holders in fixed pockets. I can't see keeping this data on local drives! -- Bill

OK. A quick test found that an older version of this part file opens and backplots the same custom tools just fine. It's only this file. The question now is: What setting could have changed to make it ignor the selected custom tool file? Hmmm... -- Bill

bogusmill, It's not the library itself. Yes, those we keep on the network with the Machine Def pointing to it. They get found no problem. The problem is the MCX tool profile (custom file) that is called from that library. I'd like to have only one file that multiple tools can call from multiple library. I thought I had it working yesterday but today it pops up a window asking for the file location. I point to it - save it - then it still can't find it during backplot. Maybe a network issue? I'll check with IS and see... -- Bill

Is there a way to have a central network location of all custom tool profle definitions that can be read from multiple tool libraries in different folders? It seems that MC likes the tool profile MCX files to reside in the same folder as the library itself. I'd like keep the profile in one place for all the libraries to point to. -- Bill

Plunge mill first... then deal with the leftovers. -- Bill

"I've never used it, but I would rather stick to what I know and not have to take the time to learn something else." That statement my friend is the kiss of death in this business. NEVER STOP LEARNING. Is it an enterprize wide based plan (put everyone on the same page)with PDM and rev control process? Or, just a simple "use this because our designers do"? If it's on their dime, give it a try. You can always go back to what you like later if it really doesn't work out for you. Just my .02. -- Bill

"I have seen 6 people complain about this problem. Not 1000's of people so because 6 people are ready to jump ship CNC need to drop everything come to your business and see why on your computer you get a problem that 1000's of others are not getting." Ron, To be sure MOST users have no troubles. The issue comes to those of use with lots of operations (my current has 150+ of them). Not really the complexity of toolpath but the large numbers of them. To be honest here, CNC Software did come out to our place and did acknowledge the need for an improved OM on large operation listings. We offered many suggestions which they took copious notes of. Much of it involves a simpler way to quickly interrogate the OM for tools, toolpaths, and plane associations to them. (if you've seen the NX OM you know just what I mean). I am told major changes are coming in that area. I've seen improvments in X2 MR1 such as the jumping screen on copy or the "Invalid argument error". We'll see how it all pans out. -- Bill

We had the demo a few months back as well. I really liked it mainly for the integration of a "live" tool database for both the cam system and Vericut. The other benefit I saw was the integration into our toolcrib inventory which would have been REALLY cool! In the end though, our company scoffed at the price. -- Bill

Finally got back to reply... >did you install sp1? Our IS dept is swamped. We are still on X2 MR1. Hopefully next week, well get that installed. >I don't think he is refering to importing from a OP >library or another MCX file, rather just copying a >toolpath from within the OP Manager. Is this >correct? Yes. The truth is most of our programs have 75 to 150 operations. There is a lot of moving things around to optimize the program. I've been told there is a major change in the works for the OM. We'll see. -- Bill

Not sure if this has been covered... Is it normal behavior for duplicate tools to be created when, cutting/pasting operations? It's really a pain in the @ss. X2mr1 -- Bill

They (Spectrum) installed them directly. They will be here for a while as we have LOTS of machines (old and new) to setup. They've done a great job so far. : )

From a time management standpoint (and if you can afford it), having someone do a whole turnkey setup is a great way to go. It's a lot more $$$ than doing it yourself but your time is spent making parts - their's is getting the system working. We went with Spectrum for this reason. http://www.multi-dnc.com/ -- Bill

"Why does everyone always bash the whole control comp thing?..." Normally, I could care less...but, since I'm stuck in a shop now where we have hundreds (thousands?) of existing programs running on machines with fixed tool locations, I must continue the maddness of using radius comp. First and foremost: I can have very short leadin-leadout moves using centerline (Wear). Second, If I'm driving planer contours where the tool happens to be the same radius as the contour, Mastercam sometimes barfs. Third, every other toolpath in your program has centerline if there is no comp - so why be different. Forth, many cam systems (MCX included) many times output short moves on exit if your not paying attention to the details. You'll get an alarm at the machine. Regarding the simplicity of using dia or radius in the control. You can be just as clean and simple if you plan ahead by driving all internal corners with some radius. That way, any wear comp will be driven. MCX though may require additional geometry to be created. This would be simplified greatly if it had corner control with the option to drive a small radius on all internal corners. -- Bill

Anything that's not on the right mouse button! -- Bill

"In addition, using cutter comp - Control - now shows the tool centerline on the part profile during playback..." Answer to myself and others: MR1 came with the "show cuttercomp" switch ON but I had to deselect then reselect it. Now it works. -- Bill

Something bad in general happened in the backplot/verify area of MR1. In addition, using cutter comp - Control - now shows the tool centerline on the part profile during playback (at least on my system). Since the OPS Manager is more stable now, I use MR1 for programming and SP1 for backplotting (correct comp display). -- Bill

I've put in a request for an "itemized" Undo. You'd see exactly what you're undoing in a stack display when you undo. You'd even go down the stack several levels to the point you'd like to get back to. -- Bill