O/T pay parity

[George_Gerhard]

Do you think you are paid well for what you do?

Now I know everyone has to make a living, and there is something for every person to do, but lately I have become upset with the salaries of some people who know much less than me. Quite frankly I do not believe anyone in the machine tool business is paid enough for the skills and knowledge you must have. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and an associates in electrical engineering technology, but to be honest thats nothing compared to years of traveling the planet building machines, teaching, and putting out fires, and a New York city sanitation worker with his over time makes more money than me, and has much more vacation time. I cannot be out of work for 2 days never mind 5 weeks, can you? Definitely not in this industry, we are not pins in a wheel. I have a friend that sells insurance and make five times my salary

Maybe I should sell insurance, I guess I could but I know I would not like it, I love the machine tool business.

I guy I know at the local airport got hired last year by Continental airlines, he made 22,000 dollars his first year, again a new sanitation worker makes more money than him. He is responsible for the lives of all on his plane, and a garbage man is responsible for not breaking a garbage can, what is wrong here?

Will the day ever come where skilled people can truly earn what they are worth?

I apologize for my fustration, I am curious if anyone else feels the same

 

thank you

George

[Keith Graydon]

George, I agree with you. We have techies here were I work and they come to us for help all the time. I once had one ask me what kind of SCREWDRIVER to use for a job. no sh!t. His salary was ~1.25 times mine. sad.

The Machine Tool industry needs to re-invent it's public image. The first thing to do would be too Never Ever Never use the word "SHOP" Here is an example:

I work in a very large building thats laid out like a 3 floor mall. The anchor(store)on the south end is us, the Model Shop.(Sears) THe Anchor (store) on the north end is our IC foundry(Nordstroms).They are called the IC CENTER. Just the difference in names, Center/Shop makes a big difference in how we are perceived. < shrug >

 

PS. Our techies have no special training other than what they might have been taught here. nuthin.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You're preaching to the choir. I happen to make more than some MBA's I know. They are highly offended that "... someone without a college degree ..." could/should make more than them. See these hosers were brought up with the perception that you are a piece of crap if you don't hold a degree of some sort.

 

I do agree that we need to re-invent the industry with HEAVY emphasis on the technology side of the busines.

[Guest]

I work in in auto industry here in southern ontario, my job title is tool&diemaker,along with all the other parts of tool&die i program set up and run the NC machines.am i under paid not really but everone thinks they should get more.I get the same rate of pay as all the other toolmakers in our plant which is with alot of OT in the 6 figure range canadian. I do what i do because i like the sense of seeing a part come out of the die and know that i had a hand in making it. If anything i would like to have more in the way of pension and earlier retirement.

[specv]

it not what you know its what people think you know

[J Coulston]

"Salary Theorem" states that "Engineers and Scientists

can never earn as much as Business Executives and Sales People."

 

This theorem is supported by mathematical

equations based on the following two postulates:

 

1. Knowledge is Power.

2. Time is Money.

 

As every engineer knows:

Power = Work / Time

 

Since

Knowledge = Power

Time = Money

 

the substitution is:

Knowledge = Work/Money

 

Solving for Money, we get:

Money = Work / Knowledge

 

Thus, as Knowledge approaches Zero, Money approaches

Infinity, regardless of the amount of Work done.

 

Conclusion: The less you know, the more you make.

 

 

The problem with our industy is that there is always someone willing to do it for less. Wether they make any money or not.

 

Just say no to non profit jobs.

[George_Gerhard]

Conclusion: The less you know, the more you make.

 

exactly my point

 

rgds

George

[SVO]

I wouldn't want to be a sanitation worker, but thank god there are people willing to do it.

 

Dan

[Tom Flyer]

...and then you have this fellow who makes more in ONE DAY than you do in a year, 'trying' to hit a ball with a stick. Hell, where's the incentive?

Where else in the world can you fail 7 times out of 10 and still be considered a success?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Where else in the world can you fail 7 times out of 10 and still be considered a success?...

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If it were easy, anybody could do it. Just think. If you were driving on the freeway at your typical speed, that ball would pass you like you were standing still. Ever try to hit something coming at you at 90+ MPH ... and only having 60' 6" to react? See the difference there is that millions of people don't pay my company money to watch me program, but millions will pay a team to watch a guy

quote:

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...'trying' to hit a ball with a stick...

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. I love baseball and if I thought for one second I could earn a living doing it, I'd do it in a heartbeat. How cool is that to get paid to play a kids game????

 

JM2C

[biss03]

right on james.... that is why i'm coaching it at the high school level (2-0 so far by the way). hell, i'd settle for being a role player at the major league level- i'd take the minimum salary any day to watch a game i love (even for the tigers!!!)

[cadist]

Hi everyone, I am from India and there is famous sentance that "Lakshami and Saraswati can not live together" now here "Lakshami" is goddess of money and "Saraswati" is goddess of knowledge.

Now if you look closely you will find not yourself but many people accepting this.

I do accept there is big difference in salaries, Many of my friend who completed engineering with me from different field particularly those who were into IT and electronics are earning 3 to 4 times than mine And in school we were not so part away,

I think it is just a question of time I have my confidense and I am sure it is just a question of times.

[Keith Graydon]

quote:

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I love baseball and if I thought for one second I could earn a living doing it, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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Me too. but there's not much call for light hitting third baseman. So I lived through the long career in MLB that my Cousin had!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'd settle for "Bat-Boy" if I could get $75-80k doing it...

 

I'd love to coach my oldest son's JV team. Their current coach sucks! He knows almost nothing about the game. He'll play the kids "up" when they should be deep and play them deep when they should be up, bunts on 2 outs and an 0-2 count. ... call for "shoot two" when there's two outs or when there's no runner's on... and the list goes on and on. I'm no Baseball expert, but I know the fundamentals and this guy is not a fundamentally sound coach.

 

James teh take me out to the ball game...

[P_Scott]

James and biss,

 

I think what Tom was implying is that the value for a professional athlete is overestimated. Granted, hitting a ball traveling that fast and making a decision in a short amount of time is not the easiest thing to do. Is it worth several million a year? I don't think so. Our country's priorities are all messed up. The guy who makes parts to sell and make money is making far less than the guy who hits a ball just to show the guys how to play a game.

 

Who can afford to go to the games anymore? Corporations and sponsors. The blue collar workers the game was originally intended to entertain during the summer can't even afford to pay for tickets for ONE game, let alone a few in the over 100 game schedule. The fact that it's now a "business" has disenchanted the majority of people who should be the ones to care.

 

I haven't watched a baseball game in so long. You know why? Because it's boring and I'm always asking, "Why do these arrogant jerks who spit in public and sit on their xxxx most of the game deserve to make so much more than I do?" Is it more dangerous than say, running a machine which has the potential to throw the part or fixture out and hurt or kill someone? No. Is it more expensive of an initial investment in equipment? No. Is it more expensive to recruit and train a pro athlete than to recruit and train someone to run a million dollar multi-axis Horizontal milling machine? Maybe but it shouldn't be. Ask yourself these questions the next time there's a player strike. I bet you could find "scabs" that would do nearly as well for a lot less money than the current pros. It would also be far more entertaining. M2C.

[Tim Johnson]

quote:

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I think what Tom was implying is that the value for a professional athlete is overestimated. Granted, hitting a ball traveling that fast and making a decision in a short amount of time is not the easiest thing to do. Is it worth several million a year? I don't think so.

--------------------------------------------------

 

The bottom line is baseball is making money. Thus As long as baseball is making money, then the players should take all baseball is willing to give them. Any person whether they play a sport or runs a vmc should make as much as they can. If your not making it where you are, then you should try "free agency". There are businesses that like the Yankees understand that top workers in whaterever field will make the company more money and deserve to be paid for it.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...I think what Tom was implying is that the value for a professional athlete is overestimated.

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How much something is "worth" depends on several factors. Worth is how much someone is WILLING to pay for something. Be it a servcice (which I believe baseball falls into) or a "durable good" which baseball is not except perhaps for "Trophies" such as homerun balls belonging to some juiced up freak proclaiming to be better than Babe Ruth or the like.

 

Can us commoners go to a ball game these days??? It depends. It's no more expensive to go to a pro ball game than to a movie these days. You wanna talk expensive, how about a football game?, a Basketball game??? Even more $$$

 

I personally don't believe ANYONE is worth millions per year in salary. Even CEO's.

 

JM2C

[Rekd™]

quote:

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uch as homerun balls belonging to some juiced up freak proclaiming to be better than Babe Ruth or the like.

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LoL

[steve f]

quote:

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Ever try to hit something coming at you at 90+ MPH ... and only having 60' 6" to react?

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...I played fastball (windmill pitching) all through high school where a 75 mph ball is pitched from 50'. The reaction time is the same and it isn't really that difficult, so...I think there are two possibilities:

 

1) proffesional athletes are overpaid

2) everyone else is underpaid

 

 

just a thought,

 

steve

[biss03]

Peter, i think it has a lot to do with supply and demand. as long as owners are willing to shell out the money, and fans are willing to fill the seats, then the player salaries are justified.my tigers are a perfect example. last years team couldn't even have been considered a MLB roster -rather AA or AAA at best and it showed in the stands. this year they go out and sign some older established players and instantly ticket sales are soaring compared to previous years. i personally believe Pudge, Rondell, Jose, and Carlos are all worth every penny they are paid this year simply because i at least feel like the tigers have a chance of winning every time they take the field. while it's true smaller market teams can't compete with larger ones, i'd bet baseball overall is pretty popular right now. and if owners were to lock out players again, don't be suprised to see them resurface in China or Japan (based on the interest of the handful of games played there).

 

ticket prices for decent seats are pretty reasonable actually. like james said, try going to the movies or even other "pro" events like wrestling or monster truck shows. it doesn't have to be MLB game, we have an "A" team locally and it is just as much fun.

 

don't get me wrong, i don't believe any professional athlete (or CEO) is worth millions of dollars for their service, but in today's world you can't blame them for taking advantage of it - i know i would if i had their athletic skills.

 

steve... so how'd that big league career of yours go then?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...2) everyone else is underpaid...

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I'm leaning more towards this one myself.

 

We've got an "A" team here also. Rancho Cucamonga Quakes. Tix are like $6 for the GOOD seats. Thursdays are two dollar beer night (if that's what you're into). Dogs are like $1.50... much cheaper than a movie. I can buy good seats and eat good with 6 in my family for less than $100. Not a bad deal, and the "A" teams are real family friendly parks, they have fun stuff for the kids. Definitely a bargain if you like to watch baseball.

 

quote:

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...but in today's world you can't blame them for taking advantage of it - i know i would if i had their athletic skills...

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Who would not. I know I'd take as much as someone is willing to pay. If I don;t like it there's ALWAYS the "free agent" market as was stated earlier.

 

BUt I do have a problem with grocery clerks making like $19+/hr. A stinking monkey could do that job.

 

JM2C

[crazy^millman]

Agreed James Agreed.

[biss03]

where do grocery store clerks make $19/hour? i need to move there - i would be getting a raise changing careers to a clerk! the grocery clerks here in my area are getting laid off.

 

"A" teams are way more family friendly. we have the West Michigan Whitecaps here and it's a blast. similiar prices as james stated.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Here in Cali. The OT (Old Timers) are topping out over $19. With the new contract that those hosers went on strike for, the nOObs will top out at liek $14 plus $14/week for benefits. Currently and for the next two years they pay nothing. How's that for a racket? Monkey's making $19/hr PLUS benefits, pension, vacation, doubletime on sundays and holidays. No wonder the stores can't be more profitable.

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

quote:

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Their current coach sucks! He knows almost nothing about the game. He'll play the kids "up" when they should be deep and play them deep when they should be up, bunts on 2 outs and an 0-2 count.

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James, nothing irks me more than little kids learning baseball from an IDIOT coach!!! This is the time in their young life to learn the fundamentals properly. Very important they have a coach who knows better than bunt with 2 out [and an 0-2 count] .

 

Peter Scott, point well taken concerning pro athlete salaries. I will give an example to consider, though: I'm from Cleveland. LeBron James makes an awful lot of money - mostly from endorsements for now, untill his next contract is due! Is he overpaid? Yeah, I would say so. But, he alone has nearly doubled our attendance this year. The area businesses, taverns, restraurants, merchandise sales, etc. boomed in sales. Some said they were struggling to survive until LeBron was drafted. Now, business is hopping [at least during basketball season]. And,

quote:

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Who can afford to go to the games anymore?

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Yeah, prices are a tad high to say the least. But for me, I bought season tickets, "had to see the King". I figure, "You only live once, might as well enjoy life". I'm an avid sports fan, to me its worth it. If I weren't big on sports then no its not worth it.

 

quote:

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BUt I do have a problem with grocery clerks making like $19+/hr. A stinking monkey could do that job.

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Excellent point. Thats what I feel. Pro athletes at least have a valuable skill and a market willing to pay them. It's the role players making 3-5 million a year that are the overpaid ones. The star players make half a fortune yet, in a lot of situations they're worth every penny. Case in point...how much does Shaq make? How much revenue does he generate for the Lakers? He makes a ton, and the Lakers make a ton. Both are happy. No Shaq... Laker's value takes a big hit. HOWEVER, the "grocery clerk" does not have a market willing to pay them. The market has no choice, the unions see to that!