Set Options First or Select Geometry First? No Consistency Between Functions

[Jobnt]

When you use functions in MC sometimes you have to select geometry first and sometimes you can set settings first. Why are they so different?

In WIREFRAME tab, hit Point Postion, it lets you set parameters or select geometry first. Same with things like rectangle, curve, trim, fillet, etc etc etc. 

But when I try to project chains, create a bolt circle, or a bounding box among others the settings are greyed out and you have to select geometry first. When doing this with offset chains you have to select the chain then the offset direction THEN you can set the distance. The default for offset chains is .500 so most of my chains error out because that's too big of an offset. So I can't offset chains until I get past all the errors and popups telling me there's no room. 

Is there logic here? 

Is there a way to change the default offset value at least? 

[Jobnt]

Also, some functions you can select geometry then the function and the function remembers what geometry you selected. Other functions  make you select geometry again after running the function? 

Why is this so inconsistent?  

[byte]

3 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

Also, some functions you can select geometry then the function and the function remembers what geometry you selected. Other functions  make you select geometry again after running the function? 

Why is this so inconsistent?  

These are all regressions that are logged as bugs, unfortunately that won't likely be before 2025...

[crazy^millman]

20 hours ago, byte said:

These are all regressions that are logged as bugs, unfortunately that won't likely be before 2025...

Like many undocumented features in Mastercam.

One has to ask themselves when will the product get the attention it really needs?

[byte]

11 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Like many undocumented features in Mastercam.

One has to ask themselves when will the product get the attention it really needs?

I think there are too many feature requests and too much attention to cad features rather than enhancements for basic toolpaths, 

I.E. fixing the nested pocket issues in dynamic mill and area mill or the retract issues in legacy pocket, stuff like that, I don't care about fancy new cad features i care about toolpaths

[Newbeeee™]

Standardization is a wonderful thing.

If only people would do it....

[sharles]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:10 PM, Jobnt said:

When you use functions in MC sometimes you have to select geometry first and sometimes you can set settings first. Why are they so different?

In WIREFRAME tab, hit Point Postion, it lets you set parameters or select geometry first. Same with things like rectangle, curve, trim, fillet, etc etc etc. 

But when I try to project chains, create a bolt circle, or a bounding box among others the settings are greyed out and you have to select geometry first. When doing this with offset chains you have to select the chain then the offset direction THEN you can set the distance. The default for offset chains is .500 so most of my chains error out because that's too big of an offset. So I can't offset chains until I get past all the errors and popups telling me there's no room. 

Is there logic here? 

Is there a way to change the default offset value at least? 

Don't worry...in 2024 they switched some things that had always worked one way and now it works the other: like pre-selection no longer works for Transform--Project like it's been forever...So, I end up double selecting it...though I'm trying to train myself not to do it...

[Jobnt]

On 7/29/2023 at 8:29 AM, crazy^millman said:

One has to ask themselves when will the product get the attention it really needs?

It won't and you damned well know that!

18 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Standardization is a wonderful thing.

If only people would do it....

Have you seen the THREE different Toolpath Dialogs they have? It's xxxxing comical AF.  

I would seriously be embarrassed to say I worked in Product Development at CNC Software. 

1 hour ago, sharles said:

Don't worry...in 2024 they switched some things that had always worked one way and now it works the other: like pre-selection no longer works for Transform--Project like it's been forever...So, I end up double selecting it...though I'm trying to train myself not to do it...

I keep tricking myself into considering moving away from 2020 but so far I haven't seen a single reason to do so and I always LOL at myself afterwards. 

[gcode]

1 hour ago, sharles said:

though I'm trying to train myself not to do it...

and by the time you've got yourself trained, they will "fix" it and you'll have to untrain yourself 

 

[gcode]

This is a comment from the official Mastercam forum concerning the Project command's preselection bug

Quote

This was a defect logged under R-34209. At the moment it is scheduled for correction in Mastercam 2025. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Jobnt said:

I keep tricking myself into considering moving away from 2020 but so far I haven't seen a single reason to do so

 

It depends on what kind of work you are doing.

If you need a lot of stock models, do a lot of surfacing or use the ModuleWorks add-in for 3, 4 or 5X work

I would strongly recommend you give x24 a try. 

X24 is far superior to x20 in all three of these categories.

[Jobnt]

1 hour ago, gcode said:

This is a comment from the official Mastercam forum concerning the Project command's preselection bug

 

 

 

It depends on what kind of work you are doing.

If you need a lot of stock models, do a lot of surfacing or use the ModuleWorks add-in for 3, 4 or 5X work

I would strongly recommend you give x24 a try. 

X24 is far superior to x20 in all three of these categories.

We do use a lot of different stock models, along with a fair bit of surfacing. We don't use Moduleworks though. 

I guess it won't hurt to install it and give it a test drive" I said with a shaky voice.

[gcode]

3 hours ago, Jobnt said:

I guess it won't hurt to install it and give it a test drive" I said with a shaky voice.

What I do when testing a new release is start with fixture files or one off patches.

If things don't go well I have not lost a lot of time and can do them over in a version I trust.

If things go well with fixtures and stuff, I take a big project that is 80 to 85% complete

and finish it in the new release. 

That way if things go south I've still got an 85% done file in a trusted version if I need it.

Having said that, I think x24 is the best release since X9.

Aside from the quirky CAD issues, the only issue I've had is the occasional crash when importing toolpaths.

It's not common and I have been unable to replicate it for a bug report.

At this point, I just save before an import then immediately after.

[crazy^millman]

When so many customers are not upgrading to 2024 hard to head that way.

[gcode]

45 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

When so many customers are not upgrading to 2024 hard to head that way.

Yes.. since your deliverables are both a CAM file and NC code

you are pretty much restricted to what your customers are using.

[MrFish]

9 hours ago, sharles said:

Don't worry...in 2024 they switched some things that had always worked one way and now it works the other: like pre-selection no longer works for Transform--Project like it's been forever...So, I end up double selecting it...though I'm trying to train myself not to do it...

Don't worry by the time you've trained yourself to the "new" way they will fix it and you'll have to re-train yourself back 

 

[byte]

1 hour ago, gcode said:

Yes.. since your deliverables are both a CAM file and NC code

you are pretty much restricted to what your customers are using.

It's the same for us, we work in the version that our customers do, although we encourage them to try the new version..

 

Typically only industry giants are on the latest version of Mastercam, and only of they have an expert level programmer.

 

The obstacle is mainly the regressions and UI changes that add a lot of training cost. (To make it easy for new users)

 

But what about existing users?

 

Just my take on the issue, my views don't reflect the views of Thee Byte Software Inc or any of our partners.

[sharles]

16 hours ago, Jobnt said:

We do use a lot of different stock models, along with a fair bit of surfacing. We don't use Moduleworks though. 

I guess it won't hurt to install it and give it a test drive" I said with a shaky voice.

I know I'm not even close to G-code's level of expertise, but when I'm test driving the latest version, I bring in some of my previous parts into the new version and see if they still work. We've had a number of issues with machine simulation, so I make sure that works correctly, and they've broken Transform--Project for the last couple of versions and so I test that out (still broken, though I have directly from CNC Software that they are actively working on it, yeah!, even given them some of my parts so they can replicate the issue). I never do anything new until I've run some of my old parts thru it just to make sure some of the things I use the most are still working ok.

And, I agree with G-code. I'm a week and a half into 2024, and so far I'm still pretty happy with it. It's definitely as good as 2019, and maybe even X9 like he said. Good luck!

[Newbeeee™]

2 hours ago, sharles said:

I know I'm not even close to G-code's level of expertise....

He's a giant of the industry fo sho!

When he finally hangs up his rat mat, if asked "what did you use to do", he'll be able to say "I was one of the top 1% grammers in the world" 

[Jobnt]

18 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

"I was one of the top 1% grammers in the world"

And his attitude towards the community and his uncanny desire to share his knowledge puts him in the top 1% of the top 1%.

@gcode you truly are a pillar in this community and have been as long as I can remember. Much love, brother (in a manly, hands-above-the-waist kind of way).

 

[gcode]

you guys are full of it!!

there are dozens of people on this forum who can run rings around me

and besides

a 'grammer is only as good as his last program.. and that program sucked 

[volitan71]

What's this about a Module Works add in? I thought Module Works was just software that companies licensed their dynamic toolpaths from? They have an add-in for end users too?

 

[gcode]

13 minutes ago, volitan71 said:

Module Works add in?

The dynamic toolpaths in Mastercam are developed by Mastercam.

Mastercam has 2 different sets of 5x toolpaths..  the legacy suite that has been in the software for 20 years

and the ModuleWorks advanced 5X toolpaths.

I'd guess that 75% of the CAM packages in the world use ModuleWorks for thier 5X toolpaths

ModuleWorks also provides the internal engine for Machine SIm

 

ModuleWorks 5X page

 

Module Works Machine Sim

 

[volitan71]

19 minutes ago, gcode said:

The dynamic toolpaths in Mastercam are developed by Mastercam.

Mastercam has 2 different sets of 5x toolpaths..  the legacy suite that has been in the software for 20 years

and the ModuleWorks advanced 5X toolpaths.

I'd guess that 75% of the CAM packages in the world use ModuleWorks for thier 5X toolpaths

ModuleWorks also provides the internal engine for Machine SIm

 

ModuleWorks 5X page

 

Module Works Machine Sim

 

I did not know that, thanks! For some reason I thought all these "adaptive", "high volume", "dynamic" etc.. were all licensed from Module Works. So it's just the 5 axis stuff in Mastercam.

[Thad]

1 hour ago, volitan71 said:

For some reason I thought all these "adaptive", "high volume", "dynamic" etc.. were all licensed from Module Works.

Me too.

[crazy^millman]

4 hours ago, gcode said:

you guys are full of it!!

there are a dozens of people on this forum who can run rings around me

and besides

a 'grammer is only as good as his last program.. and that program sucked 

My exact words to anyone. Only as good as your last mistake and no one is perfect.

3 hours ago, volitan71 said:

I did not know that, thanks! For some reason I thought all these "adaptive", "high volume", "dynamic" etc.. were all licensed from Module Works. So it's just the 5 axis stuff in Mastercam.

Nope that was developed internally. CNC Software in that front has controlled its own destiny.

Moduleworks is from a former Mastercam dealer's people in Germany.