Complex transformation

[Vengeance]

Imagine that you have 2 transformations (tool plane Include origin)
toolpath group 1
1) Work offset number P1-P3
Toolpath group 2
2) Work offset number P4-P6
The problem is that Mastercam generates code first for P1-P3, then for P4-P6 it causes an extra tool change. How to optimize it? How to combine two transformations into one operation?

[crazy^millman]

Ghost the 1st transform to get the 2nd transform to only post.

In other words make a new transform and ghost both of them and try that, but really going to come down to the order of operations.

If I am trying to minimize tool changes then I make Transform operation for each tool combing Group 1 tools with Group 2 tools so that share the same tool. Yes you may end up with 15 transform if you have 15 tools, but transform is lacking in this area. The programmer has to do a lot of heavy lifting here. 

@Byte you keep looking for things to dig into for Mastercam make a new transform and you can pretty much write your own check.

[Vengeance]

4 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

If I am trying to minimize tool changes then I make Transform operation for each tool combing Group 1 tools with Group 2 tools so that share the same tool. Yes you may end up with 15 transform if you have 15 tools, but transform is lacking in this area

Thanks for the detailed answer) I understand that u can do 15 transformations and rebuild the strategy tree, but this is not convenient, can get confused I still hope that this can be implemented somehow differently

[Vengeance]

Need to add a condition to the post or through Net-script to implement the script
#500 = 1 //Start SC
#501 = 10 //End SC
WHILE [#500 NE #501] DO1 //Recalculate SC (counter)
G54.1 P#500
Performing an operation
#500 = #500 + 1 //Updates the counter to another SC number
END1

[crazy^millman]

2 hours ago, Vengeance said:

Thanks for the detailed answer) I understand that u can do 15 transformations and rebuild the strategy tree, but this is not convenient, can get confused I still hope that this can be implemented somehow differently

Tool Groups are your friend here. You have 5 tools you have 5 Sub Groups named each tool. 100 Tools then you would have 100 tool group under your min group for that Operation of machining. Here is one for reference:

 

[Vengeance]

44 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Tool Groups are your friend here

I spent 20 minutes on this "solitaire"  Are there other, more efficient ways?

[crazy^millman]

9 minutes ago, Vengeance said:

I spent 20 minutes on this "solitaire"  Are there other, more efficient ways?

With Transform none that I am aware of.

[Vengeance]

@crazy^millman  I don't understand u 

[byte]

10 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Ghost the 1st transform to get the 2nd transform to only post.

In other words make a new transform and ghost both of them and try that, but really going to come down to the order of operations.

If I am trying to minimize tool changes then I make Transform operation for each tool combing Group 1 tools with Group 2 tools so that share the same tool. Yes you may end up with 15 transform if you have 15 tools, but transform is lacking in this area. The programmer has to do a lot of heavy lifting here. 

@Byte you keep looking for things to dig into for Mastercam make a new transform and you can pretty much write your own check.

I'm listening, is it the tool changes that are the problem? Or the large amount operations being difficult to manage?

[crazy^millman]

12 hours ago, byte said:

I'm listening, is it the tool changes that are the problem? Or the large amount operations being difficult to manage?

Both are the issue there is not method to allow the program control to do complex things. I want to use the same tool on 60 parts on Face A, but keep the retract limited. Then when I rotate the pallet to do the next 60 parts I need a retract for that one index. Give me a god way to handle that with transform? 

Here is an example where they want one tool to run through a set of parts and then move on, but not have wasted tool change time. Give a different way with one transform to do what they are trying to do without breaking them up like I have used and suggested here with transform? I know if Macros and posts hacks to accomplish these task, but out of the box Mastercam what real power and control do we have as programmer using Transform?

Take MT and transform they are not even in the same country when it comes to capability and functions.

[tryon]

On most of the HMC' I've ran the tool change time and pallet index time were pretty darn close to the same.  Plus I could index the B while the tool is changing.  So not really much time lost in that case.

 

In my case the tool groups were;

Tool group 1 is B0 complete 

Copy paste into tool group 2 B180 etc. 

This also made it easier to skip faces if I didn't have parts on them

 

 

[Vengeance]

19 часов назад, Трион сказал:

В моем случае группы инструментов были;

Группа инструментов 1 завершена B0 

Скопируйте и вставьте в группу инструментов 2 B180 и т. д. 

Spindle very long stop/start max speed 20k RPM, 5sec tool change time...  6000pcs, every second counts

Can I get a file with the project? I want to see how it works

[#Rekd™]

1 hour ago, Vengeance said:

Can I get a file with the project?

I would assume that you will attach your Ziptogo file so others can see/ suggest what to do within your file. 

 

[Vengeance]

20 minutes ago, #Rekd™ said:

I would assume that you will attach your Ziptogo file so others can see/ suggest what to do within your file

I can't do this because I use Russian localization, you will be indignant and say how bad Russians are)  I had to use a VPN to access this forum) This means that the administration strictly abides by USA rules / laws and is against any help for Russia 

[#Rekd™]

15 hours ago, Vengeance said:

I can't do this because I use Russian localization

I would suggest either contacting your reseller and or posting this question on the main Mastercam forum.

https://my.mastercam.com/forums/forum/customer-forum/

 

[AHarrison1]

15 hours ago, Vengeance said:

the administration strictly abides by USA rules / laws and is against any help for Russia 

They are !!! ...I simply cant imagine why that would be...

...oh and the administration here strictly abides by CANADIAN rules / laws.

This is , after all, a Canadian site run by Canadian company.

[JoshC]

On 8/27/2023 at 7:07 PM, byte said:

I'm listening, is it the tool changes that are the problem? Or the large amount operations being difficult to manage?

i really hope some day mastercam releases a more powerful transform, we don't need stupid changes like changing the name of Inch to US, or we don't need stupid stock setup changes that make the software harder to use and then we all get ignored when we share our opinions on that, we need and want stuff that makes mastercam easier to work with like improvements to transform to make it more powerful, or a transform made specifically for Horizontal machines so we can have more control over a pallet and offsets and order of operations things are ran in. There is just so many users out there that would benefit from a more powerful transform toolpath in mastercam. 

[Vengeance]

My friend helped me modify the postprocessor) Now u can turn on the "macro transform" and the code is obtained in this format, it's very convenient)

#500 = 1 (P START WCS)
#501 = 3 (P END WCS)
WHILE [#500 LE #501] DO1
G90 G54.1 P#500
ur NC code
#500 = #500 + 1
END1

#500 = 4 (P START WCS)
#501 = 6 (P END WCS)
WHILE [#500 LE #501] DO5
G90 G54.1 P#500
ur NC code
#500 = #500 + 1
END5

[Newbeeee™]

13 hours ago, JoshC said:

i really hope some day mastercam releases a more powerful transform, we don't need stupid changes like changing the name of Inch to US, or we don't need stupid stock setup changes that make the software harder to use and then we all get ignored when we share our opinions on that, we need and want stuff that makes mastercam easier to work with like improvements to transform to make it more powerful, or a transform made specifically for Horizontal machines so we can have more control over a pallet and offsets and order of operations things are ran in. There is just so many users out there that would benefit from a more powerful transform toolpath in mastercam. 

....or port across the Gibbs horizontal module, now both companies are under the one umbrella....

[crazy^millman]

5 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

....or port across the Gibbs horizontal module, now both companies are under the one umbrella....

You mean follow the Autodesk process of product development by buying other companies and porting their stuff into yours and I don't know call it some name that means fusing stuff together and calling it all original?

[Newbeeee™]

1 hour ago, crazy^millman said:

You mean follow the Autodesk process of product development by buying other companies and porting their stuff into yours and I don't know call it some name that means fusing stuff together and calling it all original?

Yip!

But to be fair to Gibbs....from what I saw ref the Hori package, it rocked!

I know James M said a while ago that 5ax machines are now where it's at, and they outsell horis nowadays, but for all my parts (prismatics/electrical enclosures etc) - I'd have cut an arm off for a pair of 5x pallet horis....