So it looks like they are limping in fusion 360with Camplete now

[Leon82]

I haven't figured out if you can omit it from a new install 

[Jobnt]

 

Was just getting ready to pull the trigger on a Camplete demo, too. Guess I'll have Vericut and ICAM come over and demo their xxxx instead. 

[rgrin]

We use camplete for our post and mach sim for our 5-axis machines.  I don't think we ever fully utilized it and the implementations have been half-baked at best.  I've been wondering ever since AutoDesk bought camplete if it was worth continuing our relationship with them.  My biggest concern is long term support for the camplete plug in.

 

Is the mach sim in Mastercam on par with these other options yet? I know in order for it to mean anything, you need to have them designed around your post.  My ideal scenario is using just Mastercam since it gets annoying managing multiple licenses to other vendors. I had a quote from our reseller that it would be ~$4500 to get started on the Mastercam Mach Sim. To me that seems reasonable since I think our AutoDesk subscription is like ~1k per year per seat or something like that.  The other question I had but never got answered was how much hassle is it to keep that Mach Sim up to date every Mastercam release. Are there any potential new bugs I would run into?

[Jobnt]

33 minutes ago, rgrin said:

Is the mach sim in Mastercam on par with these other options yet?

...

I had a quote from our reseller that it would be ~$4500 to get started on the Mastercam Mach Sim. To me that seems reasonable

How many serious crashes cost less than $4,500.00 to get going again? 

Saving even one major crash would likely pay for itself. Another post mentioned MachSim is 98% as capable as Vericut. Not sure how different that is from Camplete but seems MachSim would be an excellent investment. 

[rgrin]

6 minutes ago, Jobnt said:

How many serious crashes cost less than $4,500.00 to get going again? 

Saving even one major crash would likely pay for itself. Another post mentioned MachSim is 98% as capable as Vericut. Not sure how different that is from Camplete but seems MachSim would be an excellent investment. 

Too true about the cost savings preventing a crash.  it just seems odd that Mastercam Mach Sim doesn't seem to get pushed too hard. The typical answer I see is just get Camplete, Vericut, or NCSimul. Seems odd since what I have seen is that Mastercam would cover pretty much all of my bases and inside of 1 package.

[Leon82]

I think if you you under updates you can pick just the Camplete 

[cncappsjames]

On 10/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, rgrin said:

We use camplete for our post and mach sim for our 5-axis machines.  I don't think we ever fully utilized it and the implementations have been half-baked at best.  I've been wondering ever since AutoDesk bought camplete if it was worth continuing our relationship with them.  My biggest concern is long term support for the camplete plug in.

I've not heard of any rumors or plans to discontinue any of the Plug-Ins. Well, actually, I have heard a few rumors, but those originated from people that have a vested interest in selling CAM post processors. But no rumors from anyone with any real juice, and nobody that would really know. The reality is the last Plug-In that was discontinued was the NX Plug-In. There will be no further development on that one. That decision was made by Siemens NOT CAMplete/AutoDesk. The NX PlugIn is still available, just not in further development.

For 15-20 years we've had/heard the discussions about "when Dassault decides to cut the cord from their competitor Siemens in licensing the Parasolid Kernel that SolidWorks uses and get people on to CATIA". People made decisions long ago to discontinue maintenance "because it could happen" meanwhile they missed out on all the tools available from then to now. Because of conjecture. Because of rumor. Hey, I believed they would get tired of writing that check to Siemens too. Apparently the SW sales and Maintenance are worth the hit to Dassault's ego. Money talks and something else walks.

Personally CAMplete is all I ever use. We actually bought 2 seats BITD AT FULL retail. That check was somewhere in the neighborhood of $25k in 2007 dollars. It was worth it then. It's worth it now. I've been using it since mid-2007. I'm not going to stop using it until it's gone or no longer available. Every new Mastercam version, I update the Machine Definitions, Control Definitions and Posts that I use for machines I support (and a few that I do only because my customers needed assistance because the other machine dealers aren't up to snuff), then I go through the Defaults and set them up so our machines will perform in the ways we expect them to.

JM2CFWIW

[Paul Anderson]

I agree with James. Been using Camplete now for a while and have had no issues. I let the install add Fusion but have never even opened it up. Camplete is well worth the investment.

[gcode]

On 10/17/2023 at 11:45 AM, rgrin said:

Is the mach sim in Mastercam on par with these other options yet? I know in order for it to mean anything, you need to have them designed around your post.  My ideal scenario is using just Mastercam since it gets annoying managing multiple licenses to other vendors. I had a quote from our reseller that it would be ~$4500 to get started on the Mastercam Mach Sim.

There are 2 machine sim's available for Mastercam.

One version, supplied by Mastercam, is free and runs on NCI. The seconds is the Postability Machine Sim. It is linked to your Postability post but it does not run the actual gcode. However, it does accurately reflect what will happen on the machine.It's greatest advantage is it launches straight out of Mastercam. It is excellent for checking tool clearance, toolpath motion,  collisions and the stability and smoothness of 4 and 5X toolpaths. I use it extensively to program our Okuma MU1000H, a JOBS C/A 5X gantry mill and a Cincinatti A/B gantry mill.

It is especially useful for checking windup limits on the JOBS as the C axis is limited to ±200° and it is as simple as launching a Verify session.It is not a replacement for Vericut.

Vericut stands in a league of it's own, but it also costs 7 to 10 times the price of Postability Machine Sim. 

I use Postability Machine Sim as a programming aide and Vericut as the final check before releasing a program to the floor.

   

[cncappsjames]

As long as you understand what MockSim is and is not, what Vericut is and is not, what CAMplete is and is not you can make educated decisions about what fits your need.

MockSim doe NOT check G-Code. Tied to a Postability post it is a good solution for most things. Again, it's not fully simulating ALL the motion in your machine like M-Codes, etc...

Vericut... they simulate the actual G-Code that will run in your machine. As good as your control file and machine stuff is determines how good your simulation is. By and large it is the gold standard for simulation. You can create your own machines if you desire to learn or you can buy them from Vericut, or you can hire someone to build them for you. YOu have choices. Vericut is NOT an integrated post processing solution so you will need a post either from your CAM vendor or from ICAM, or somewhere else.

CAMplete... they simulate the G-Code created from their posted code. You cannot import and edited code. CAMplete IS an integrated Post Processing solution that will simulate the factory G and M-Codes. You have almost as much control over your machine as you would in a Vericut machine. You have limited machine editing capability and you cannot create your own machines. That is not an anticipated feature. The machines are factory configured meaning Matsuura, Okuma, Kern, Mazak, Haas, etc... has given their blessing on the accuracy of the models, motion, and functionality. Because CAMplete is an intagrated Post Processing solution, you have control over the code. The NC Formats are user customizable. Typically a basic NC Format is given to the customer that will run the machine well. I've got a decade and a half's experience developing NC Formats and I've got highly tuned NC Formats  that take advantage of the majority of the features and functions of the Matsuuras (since that95% of what I spend my time on) and I'm adding new stuff all the time based on customer requests.

Knowing the tools, knowing their strengths, weaknesses and capabilites os the key to getting the best solution for you. For me, nothing beats CAMplete. For you, Postability and Vericut may be best, for someone else, MockSim will do the job. Know your tools.

[Leon82]

It looks like you are streaming fusion. it doesn't install it on the hard disk like camplete. it needs to be setup for each user 

[cncappsjames]

I just did a fresh install of CAMplete... Fusion360 was not installed automatically.

[Leon82]

5 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

I just did a fresh install of CAMplete... Fusion360 was not installed automatically.

It didn't on mine either 

[Kyle F]

I just got a fresh copy of CAMplete and it seems as though it did come with Fusion, but I did not install it.. (yet??)

I should probably google "what is HSMworks" to start 

 

[crazy^millman]

Question is are they making you run everything for CAMPLETE on the cloud like Fusion?

Another thing is which of them allows you a floating network license that 100 programmers could use and not have to pay a license fee for all 100 programmers to use? 2 out of the 3 allow that and not charge per machine per user to use it? Check out the hidden costs of ownership also. Have a bad couple of months and don't pay the mother-ship on one of them your dead in the water. 2 of them you want to stay with your current version for 20 years you can and have good and bad months and stay in business and not have it destroyed.

That is as of today date. A year or 5 years from now they all might fall into the mother-ship controls your density mindset we can never know.

[Leon82]

On 3/30/2024 at 9:30 AM, crazy^millman said:

Question is are they making you run everything for CAMPLETE on the cloud like Fusion?

Another thing is which of them allows you a floating network license that 100 programmers could use and not have to pay a license fee for all 100 programmers to use? 2 out of the 3 allow that and not charge per machine per user to use it? Check out the hidden costs of ownership also. Have a bad couple of months and don't pay the mother-ship on one of them your dead in the water. 2 of them you want to stay with your current version for 20 years you can and have good and bad months and stay in business and not have it destroyed.

That is as of today date. A year or 5 years from now they all might fall into the mother-ship controls your density mindset we can never know.

As far as I can tell it's still on the hard drive.