CAM ASSIST - any experience out there yet?

[Sumac Andy]

Hi all.

I know this is new software to the market, but has anyone here had experience of CAM ASSIST within Mastercam or any other software - currently Fusion360 is supported (and in Beta for 3+2).

Keen to hear any replies.

link - CAM Assist for Fusion 360 (cloudnc.com)

 

TIA.

Andy.

[JParis]

Over the weekend I got a connection ask on LinkedIn from the guy thats seems to be hawking it...

Had not even heard of it before...as usual, I am dubious of anything promising a "1 click" solution for manufacturing...but I'll watch, listen & learn and see what it is all about. 

[cncappsjames]

It probably works well for prismatic stuff. Automatic Toolpath for that type of work is fairly mature at this point. The stuff so-called "influencers" tend to highlight typically falls into this category.

The stuff most of my customers do, I too would be VERY skeptical.

[Sumac Andy]

1 hour ago, JParis said:

Over the weekend I got a connection ask on LinkedIn from the guy thats seems to be hawking it...

Had not even heard of it before...as usual, I am dubious of anything promising a "1 click" solution for manufacturing...but I'll watch, listen & learn and see what it is all about. 

We have Fusion360 here that came along with our Power Inspect package, I've looked at the software for that, not experienced enough to possibly make an educated comment but I still haven't had a 1 click experience...

1 hour ago, cncappsjames said:

It probably works well for prismatic stuff. Automatic Toolpath for that type of work is fairly mature at this point. The stuff so-called "influencers" tend to highlight typically falls into this category.

The stuff most of my customers do, I too would be VERY skeptical.

Unfortunately I can't be sceptical as people much higher than my pay grade have mentioned it, so we have to explore all avenues.  It 'appears' to be a possible quick way to get toolpaths down, then get in and fine tune them, I think that is where most time would be lost. I get what you are saying about 'influencers' and hear that a lot.

[JParis]

11 minutes ago, Sumac Andy said:

I get what you are saying about 'influencers' and hear that a lot.

The "sales pitch" always sounds good....when the rubber hits the road though is where the truth of the sales pitch will be proven or destroyed...

Hell, Mastercam has "Feature Based" machining already...with a bit of upfront work it can be pretty massaged....you'll  make toolpath and then have to dig in to clean it up...so from that perspective, I would be leery it's not a whole lot different. 

[AHarrison1]

Forgive my ignorance here or possible lack of understanding but this looks very similar in nature to the FBM mill and drill options within Mastercam.

(DOH!! JParis beat me to it)

Edited March 4 by AHarrison1

[JParis]

and Camworks has "Knowledge bases"...is "CAM Assist" better or worse than any other types that already do something very similar?

Who knows...certainly not I

[cncappsjames]

49 minutes ago, Sumac Andy said:

...

Unfortunately I can't be sceptical as people much higher than my pay grade have mentioned it, so we have to explore all avenues.  It 'appears' to be a possible quick way to get toolpaths down, then get in and fine tune them, I think that is where most time would be lost. I get what you are saying about 'influencers' and hear that a lot.

In my 30+ years experience programming, roughing strategies take less time than finishing strategies. Perhaps it's due to they types of parts I see a lot of (non prismatic, organic, textured, and/or finish sensitive). Often times the CAD model by itself does not contain every detail. 

Not trying to dissuade you by any means, just trying to bring some manage expectations.

But even a prismatic part... let's say on the print you have a .0008" profile tolerance. How will it handle a feature like that if it's not in the MBD (and chances are it's not). Maybe that's not your world, but it's mine, and If I have a half dozen or so features (on an easy day) that are that way, I've found I spend more time massaging toolpaths when I use the automated functions (ATP, FBM, etc...), that said, I do use them when practical, I di use ProDrill. It automates plane creation pretty awesome, and Multi-Axis Auto Roughing sees a fair amount of action on my work station. 

So, do your due diligence, investigate, and manage your higher-ups expectations. It may be they've already drank the "Easy Button" kool-aid, in which case... good luck. You're gonna need it. Regardless, we'll help where we can.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

Signed up for the 'beta' program. I'll report back if it seems more interesting than FBM.

Curious how it handles defaults, tool libraries, etc. Does it just add it's own stuff? Does it use my tried and tested speeds and feeds?

I'm skeptical that it says it will "draft the code to tell a CNC machine how to make it" - this is not power-user language. The whole thing has a sales pitch vibe, but we'll see what it can do if they send anything to work with.

 

Edit: Also, after you sign up there's another video, and it's the first time I've seen someone explicitly call it "Sandvik MasterCam", lol, gave me a chuckle

[cncappsjames]

I'm already getting that hard-core Pro/E magic button vibe that the shills were pushing as the greatest thing since sliced bread back in the 90's.... and the STEP NC magic that NEVER materialized beyond BASIC prismatic parts. Seems to me they were ahead of everyone else but it was abandoned in the early 2000's best I can recall. 

Programming is hard. SO many variables, unwritten rules for anything but the most basic of parts. 

We shall see. I hope I am wrong though. 

[SuperHoneyBadger]

Sends part data to their cloud for processing, and sends back toolpaths. Gonna be a no go for any controlled goods or NDAs. They specifically mention don't use it for security sensitive data.

That will eliminate all the parts where saving time by automation would really be useful, AKA anything complicated or important. If you're already using Fusion360, it's all cloud anyways, so I guess those guys don't really mind another 'tunnel off the property' so to speak.

Looks like we're sticking to the old fashioned way, boys, Skynet's gonna have to wait another day to take our jobs.

 

[JParis]

7 minutes ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

Sends part data to their cloud for processing, and sends back toolpaths. Gonna be a no go for any controlled goods or NDAs.

lol, yeah, that ain't happening

[Sumac Andy]

10 hours ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

Sends part data to their cloud for processing, and sends back toolpaths. Gonna be a no go for any controlled goods or NDAs. They specifically mention don't use it for security sensitive data.

That will eliminate all the parts where saving time by automation would really be useful, AKA anything complicated or important. If you're already using Fusion360, it's all cloud anyways, so I guess those guys don't really mind another 'tunnel off the property' so to speak.

Looks like we're sticking to the old fashioned way, boys, Skynet's gonna have to wait another day to take our jobs.

 

This could, and probably will be a massive sticking point for us, thanks for pointing that out.

[Sumac Andy]

14 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

In my 30+ years experience programming, roughing strategies take less time than finishing strategies. Perhaps it's due to they types of parts I see a lot of (non prismatic, organic, textured, and/or finish sensitive). Often times the CAD model by itself does not contain every detail. 

Not trying to dissuade you by any means, just trying to bring some manage expectations.

But even a prismatic part... let's say on the print you have a .0008" profile tolerance. How will it handle a feature like that if it's not in the MBD (and chances are it's not). Maybe that's not your world, but it's mine, and If I have a half dozen or so features (on an easy day) that are that way, I've found I spend more time massaging toolpaths when I use the automated functions (ATP, FBM, etc...), that said, I do use them when practical, I di use ProDrill. It automates plane creation pretty awesome, and Multi-Axis Auto Roughing sees a fair amount of action on my work station. 

So, do your due diligence, investigate, and manage your higher-ups expectations. It may be they've already drank the "Easy Button" kool-aid, in which case... good luck. You're gonna need it. Regardless, we'll help where we can.

I hear what you're saying about roughing and finishing, I find that we are often modifying customer models to get limits correct from the drawings back to the solid just to get an easier and best way to use the model and geometry for the programming.
With regards to the FBM within Mcam, our reseller never pushed that feature, in fact, in some ways dissuaded the use of it. I've looked at it and left it where it was because I couldn't get what I thought we needed from it. Maybe now Sandvik are involved, the FBM may be invested in more? Or maybe a training thing for us here!!!
The 'easy button' or as we call it here, the 'do it now button' has been pushed, and thanks for the help offer. 

 

[cncappsjames]

11 hours ago, SuperHoneyBadger said:

... If you're already using Fusion360, it's all cloud anyways...

There's a work around to always work locally.... and data gets saved here;

C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Autodesk\Autodesk Fusion 360\TUTYKMFVYYLA\W.login\F\

[Newbeeee™]

I did have a play years ago after watching Derek Goodwin's weekend dive into setting FBM up.
I was doing a lot of prototypes for one customer who was absolutely useless - and I wanted the 1xclick to just be able to make the part so when the design finally "worked", it could be properly 'grammed.
But as always, time and other things beat me....
I just looked at youtube and there's a IHS "deep dive" that maybe worth watching, as that is a year old so would be way more current than Dereck's.
BUT.... perhaps have a talk with Pete @ Theebyte - he writes custom solutions and for the right application, truly is 1xclick.

[email protected]

 

[gcode]

23 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

It may be they've already drank the "so easy a 6 year old can do it" kool-aid, in which case... good luck

fissed for accuracy 

[Newbeeee™]

1 hour ago, gcode said:

fissed for accuracy 

That's a few years ago now G.

His daughter must truly be an expert by now, and I guess nearly left school 

[Mick]

I had a customer mention this to me some time last  year. He had drunk the Kool Aid, and he kept telling me that a) It was a cost effective option, as he could use Fusion 360 combined with it, rather than spending money on TopSolid. b) He could hire new graduates out of University and pay them cheap rates, or even have his son come in after school and do programming for the company. I did insinuate that using those strategies wouldn't work so well, in my opinion.

Now, almost twelve months later, he is advertising for skilled programmers, and he's ditched Fusion.

The kool aid jar was empty