Verify Lockups

[Albion]

I am running an HP Vectra VL800 with an Intel 815 video card, and 128meg of ram. I've downloaded the latest drivers for the video card from HP and installed them. And, I am running Windows 2000 SP 1 on the machine.

The problem that I have is with Verify locking up. I have read the usenet on alt.machines.cnc and done a search here but I keep getting conflicting solutions. Some people claim it's not a good video card. Some people tell me I need more RAM. Others tell me I need to delete file. I've even had someone tell me I need to rename OpenGL DLL files.

I have tried renaming the files and that to no avail. Now I am to the point where I am going to have to spend a considerable ammount of money. Before I start spending that money I would like to be pretty sure my purchase is going to solve the problems at hand.

So, can someone tell me, what's the best video card to buy within the <$600 price range? I've been looking at the new Nvdia cards, are these ok? Has anyone tried one? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

[Bill]

Do a search or look at some recent threads. We have beat this horse quite a bit lately. There are quite a few to choose from (threads and video cards). Good luck.

------------------

B. Henderson

OMEGA PlASTICS

[email protected]

opinc.com

[Bill]

In fact there was one on 6-11-01 by Yannick??

Isn't the intel card integrated? If it is I would think that is your culprit.

------------------

B. Henderson

OMEGA PlASTICS

[email protected]

opinc.com

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 06-15-2001).]

[Albion]

quote:

---

In fact there was one on 6-11-01 by Yannick??

Isn't the intel card integrated? If it is I would think that is your culprit.

---

Yeah the card is integrated. but why would that be a problem? Is there some hard coding in the integrated card which the non-integrated version doesn't have?

Luckly the VL400 has an extra AGP slot for non-integrated cards along with it's integrated Intel 815 video card.

Thanks.

 

 

[cadcam]

the intagrated cards are ok for some things but not for CAD/CAM.

Sorry try and get a decent AGP card.

------------------

jay/ aka cadcam

Precision Programming

cnc programming &

Predator reseller

email: [email protected]

web: www.ppcadcam.com

Mastercam forum FTP free file support

ftp://www.ppcadcam.com

User: mastercam

Pass: forum

[Bill]

The integrated card relies on system memory or sharing it where as other cards are driven by there own i.e. 32 meg, 64 meg...

I am not a computer guru so I may be off my nut but I believe I am close.. I don't know, Cadcam could you explain it better?

------------------

B. Henderson

OMEGA PlASTICS

[email protected]

opinc.com

[mmonica]

I have a Compaq at home with a intergrated video ATi chipset. It has a 2 MEG sim with an extra slot for a additional 2 MEG sim. Compaq says it does not use other system memory or resources for video intensive apps. I do not run any CAD/CAM apps but I've had an difficult time getting a PCI video card to install. This will be the last computer I buy with intergrated video!!

[Multax]

Dear Albion

The GeForce cards will serve your Mastercam needs quite well! Albion, I suggest that instead of spending $600 on a new GeForce3, buy a used Gloria II on EBAY for $200-$300. This card uses the Quadro I GPU, a first generation mid-range work- station class video card. However, if you have the money and can wait, buy a lower end GeForce for a $100 and test it to your satisfaction. Then, wait until Elsa introduces their Gloria IV, this card will have the Quadro III version of the GeForce 3 GPU. However, I suspect they will want $1200 upon initial release.

Visit SPECBENCH.ORG and you will discover that the GeForce Quadro's and the Fire GL 2's & 3's & 4's dominate ALL of the HIGHEND video benchmarks they have developed. The members of this forum that use the GeForce cards and that have posted their comments have yet to find fault with these cards. I cannot understand why the users on this forum have latched onto inferior technology and continue to rabidly defend the Matrox and Oxygen video cards

Albion, your post demonstrates that a well-written question reflects well on you, this forum, and the CAM profession.

Multax

[This message has been edited by Multax (edited 06-19-2001).]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

I cannot understand why the users on this forum have latched on to inferior technology and continue to rabidly defend the Matrox and Oxygen cards.

---

........ because they...... work too????????

 

------------------

James M.

[cadcam]

Sorry to tell you to they work and work well.

i i could spend 1 to 2 grand on a card i would.

i am a small company .

but the Oxygen cards have been good to me for about 5 years now.

this is not a attack just a statment.

------------------

jay/ aka cadcam

Precision Programming

cnc programming &

Predator reseller

email: [email protected]

web: www.ppcadcam.com

Mastercam forum FTP free file support

ftp://www.ppcadcam.com

User: mastercam

Pass: forum

[Multax]

Dear Mr. Meyette

What does it take for you to advance your thinking!!! I have read most of your posts and have found them interesting, informative, and quite pasionate. Especially in your defence of Mastercam. However, I believe that the users of this forum can appriciate and benifit from information founded on verifiable facts instead of emotional outbursts that betray one's objectivity! May I suggest a book that you should peruse, THAT NOBLE DREAM: The "Objectivity Question" and the American Historical Profession by Peter Novick ISBN 0-521-35745-4

Dear Mr. Jay

Mastercam users spend between $3,000 &

$13,000 for their software in addtion to $1,000 to $3,000 for their computers and yet the only video card they can afford costs only $125??? On the used market (EBAY) the Gloria II sells for $200 to $300 & the Gloria III sells for $300 to $600.00. Tomshardware.com has an excellent article that describes the current crop of PROFESSIONAL video cards.

[cadcam]

I agree that they spend allot on the software.

But then they don’t in most case's care about the computer and go to Best Buy and pick one up.

All they know is that the computer has a 32meg card & figure it must be good.

But along with this the oxygen cards are still good cards and they do have the higher cost & much better cards.

I used to use one of the $2,000 cards but now that is out dated.

So we want to help the other users out here and if they can afford a really high-end card great I would suggest that like you, They get one.

But most of the times they want to just know what cards will work.

But I did feel that your statement was feeling like a small attack here.

Thanks jay

 

------------------

jay/ aka cadcam

Precision Programming

cnc programming &

Predator reseller

email: [email protected]

web: www.ppcadcam.com

Mastercam forum FTP free file support

ftp://www.ppcadcam.com

User: mastercam

Pass: forum

[This message has been edited by cadcam (edited 06-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by cadcam (edited 06-15-2001).]

[Multax]

Dear Mr. Jay & Mr. Meyette

Remember Joe Friday?

 

"Just the facts Ma'am"

[cadcam]

i like that answer sir.

------------------

jay/ aka cadcam

Precision Programming

cnc programming &

Predator reseller

email: [email protected]

web: www.ppcadcam.com

Mastercam forum FTP free file support

ftp://www.ppcadcam.com

User: mastercam

Pass: forum

[Albion]

I understand what most people are saying about video cards. We should have purchased the higher end Kayak machines from HP. But at the time the purchase of the Software and 6 machines to go with it sort of cut into our budget. At the time I guess I figured , "It has an extra AGP slot, if the built in card doesn't work we can always populate it with another card."

I am going to check out the Nvidia cards for right now. We run ELSA Gloria, Gloria II and Synergy II cards on some of our higher end CAM (UG/ProE) workstations and they work great but at this time I don't have the cash flow to spend $800 to $1200 each on 6 video cards.

I appreciate all the quick responces to this problem and hope to continue to use this forum for advice in the future.

Thanks Again.

Craig Manske

[lou]

Multax, I wonder how much help you will get on this forum with all of your attacks on other members? No problem giving your 2 cents but when you attack other people when they are trying to help out is not going to help you in the future. Just my 2 cents.

------------------

Lou Wilson

Cnc Programmer

http://www.opinc.com

[Mark H]

My 2 cents...

We have 2 indentical computers with the exception of the video cards. One has a NVIDIA Geforce 2, and the other is an Oxygen VX1 card. They both work very well. I can NOT tell the difference between them. As an example I have had 50 shaded surfaces on the screen and the dynamic rotate works perfectly with both. There is not any choppy rotation with either.

[Bullines]

But of course The GeForce series of chipsets (minus MX versions of it) are the cream of the commerical video accelerator crop. Notice I said "commercial"? If it came down to a showdown between a GeForce card and an Oxygen card, the Oxygen card would win. But the test used in the showdown would have to be pretty intense for the GeForce to show its limitations.

In short, video cards based on nVidia's GeForce series are a safe bet because you get the most bang for your buck out of them. However, if you're playing with like 50,000 polygons on your screen, then the Oxygen card will help, but it'll cost you.

That's my video card $0.02.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

What does it take for you to advance your thinking!!!

---

about $1050 by my estimation.

quote:

---

I have read most of your posts and have found them interesting, informative, and quite pasionate. Especially in your defence of Mastercam.

---

Thanks, ..... I think.

quote:

---

However, I believe that the users of this forum can appriciate and benifit from information founded on verifiable facts instead of emotional outbursts that betray one's objectivity!

---

You want verifiable facts, come see my box. Plain and simple, it works. People in here ask what works with this, that, and the other thing. I can only state what has worked for me in my experience, what worked and did not work for my former customers. Is it opinion that Mastercam runs well on my machine? Possibly. But, I'll let you in on this little benchmark we did at my former place of amployment, the boss had a 96MB Video Card. He opened the "Case-I" sample file shaded. 7 seconds and change, I opened in on my box that was 50MHz slower, with my Matrox 16MB card, 11 seconds. His card was about $1200, my card was $150 at best. Pretty sad if you ask me. His dynamic rotation is snappier but not $1050 worth. So Mr. My Video Card Opinion Is Better Than Yours, what do you have to say about that?????

Would a high end card work nicely with my box? It probably would and since we're looking for verifiable facts, I can't verify your statements, so I'll leave it at that.

And on another note, I'd appreciate keeping the personal attacks at a minimum. This is a pretty friendly community and we'd like to keep it that way.

------------------

James M.

[Tony]

I use the Oxygen GVX1 card.

My Box is loaded up with all the Good stuff.

Because it's not my Money!

Every software release cad and cam

We get it as soon as its out.

Again, because its not my money "I need it for the job" etc.

But if it was my money,you could bet I wouldn't spend more then $150.00 for a card.

 

[Multax]

Dear Mr. Meyette

Did you visit www.specbench.org and www.tomshardware.com to take advantage of their research and test results? Did you read Albion, Bullines, Mark H., and Ronengineer’s statements about their experiences with their GeForce cards? If you had, perhaps your post would not have included “So Mr. My Video Card Opinion Is Better Than Yours, what do you have to say about that?????” or “I can't verify your statements, so I'll leave it at that.” Mr. Meyette, I defy you to show me a single statement that I have ever posted at emastercam.com that collaborates your previous quotes! I assiduously attempt to present facts and not opinions. In my very short career as a CNC programmer, operator, and setup man, I have learned that CNC machinery, programming, and post modification does not respond to opinions. And neither should people that possess common sense, rational thinking, and good morals based on the golden rule. I try my best to research my written statements based on facts that I can substantiate with reputable sources before I post them on emastercam.com.

Mr. Meyette, how come your predatory and denigrating statements “Man, the "suits" have no stinking clue how things are going to collapse in the next 10-15 years after the "Old Guys" retire" falls within the bounds of acceptable discourse and yet when I challenge your likes or opinions your “defenders” feel that I have “attacked” you? Besides, I joined this forum with the idea that emotionally and intellectually mature people could enter into the fray and have an honest, vigorous, and open discussion about the current state of the CNC programming profession, software, and computer equipment.

Mr. Meyette, in the interests of intellectual honesty, the next time you feel a need to criticize one of my posts, at least give the users a well written, logically reasoned, and point by point rebuttal.

Someone gave me a proverb that I like and it states; read more, think more, and speak less.

Multax

[This message has been edited by Multax (edited 06-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Multax (edited 06-19-2001).]

[Andy]

Multax,

Your arguments would carry more weight if your spelling improved. Paying attention to details conveys competence.

------------------

Gordon Engineering

Eureka, Ca.

V8 Lathe and Mill

[Michael Reynolds]

Hey James & Multiax, whatever you do, don't SPEAK LESS!! Both of your comments and suggestions have helped me (and I'm sure ALOT of individuals on this forum) GREATLY!!

On the subject of video cards (which seems to be a touchy subject), I bought a 64 meg Radeon card to help display/rotate/whatever, with mcam solids/surfaces, and it seemed to work REALLY well, but I followed a thread on this forum about video cards in which ALL the replies were against the radeon. So... I nixed the radeon, and bought an nvidia 64 meg card to replace it. The radeon was much superior to the nvidia (which is currently on my system). The system didn't crash 'er nothin'.

Here's the point...I love this forum, and I check out ALL posts & their replies. If I act on someones reply or post, and it works, that's GREAT! If it doesn't work, I still know that the person who posted was replying with their best intentions...

Sooooo...Can't we all just get along?

Mike R.

[Multax]

Dear Mr. Reynolds

Did you use the same computer, OS, and Mastercam settings under Screen, Configure, Screen, Enable OpenGL® drawing and then Shading ..., Chord-height? Did you take care to use the same settings under Screen, Tolerances, Curve min and max step size? As well as curve chordal and maximum surface deviation? Have you installed the latest Detonator 3 drivers, revision number 5.12.01.0650? Have you used all of the Open GL settings except the Disable support for enhanced CPU instruction sets under Settings, Control Panel, Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, Nvidia Icon, Additional Properties, OpenGL Settings? When you have equalized all of the above settings, retest and then post your results.

Dear Mr. Jay, Mr. Meyette, Mr. Stephens, and Mr. Thompson

Gentlemen, I believe that your knowledge of Mastercam and Programming can end this thread with the development of an objective test. Can the four of you, as well as any other forum user that can help, develop a benchmark called MasterBench or any other name you want to use that can test toolpath generation, video performance, and overall stability? The video test can examine the card’s ability in the areas of dynamic rotation, rendering speed, surface accuracy, and zoom in and out. In addition, a toolpath benchmark that can test CPU performance and stability with a test part that uses every Mastercam toolpath such as drilling, pocketing, surface machining, turning, two, three, four, and five axis toolpaths would serve all users. The benchmark should run on Win 98/Millennium and NT 4.0/Professional 2000. Base machine, CPU 400MHz Pentium II, 128 megs of SDRAM, Matrox 450 video card, and a 10gig 5400RPM Ultra ATA 100 HD.

 

Run your part through this machine and record the time in minutes. Make sure the part has enough complexity to use at least five minutes of computing time. This will allow some room for the faster machines. Then allow the emastercam forum users to download your benchmark and they can use it to determine their own benchmark results and emastercam can compile a list of CPU, Motherboard, RAM type SDRAM or DDR, and Video cards that produce the best scores. MCAM NorthWest Inc., mcamnw.com has developed their own VIDEO benchmark for Mastercam. Currently, in the June 2001 issue of their Power Pages a (Matrox Millennium GeForce II 64mb)? AGP card holds the fastest time of any video card tested so far.

Multax

[This message has been edited by Multax (edited 06-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Multax (edited 06-19-2001).]

[gcode]

NVIDIA's newest Detonator 3 drivers are

5.1301.1241.

http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=drivers