"Your Dealer" topic removed

[Webby]

I've removed the entire recent "Your Dealer" topic after requests from dealers to have the Forum completely shut down.

Please keep in mind that this site is run by a Mastercam reseller with the blessing of CNC Software and their reseller channel. As a result, we can't tolerate any reseller related complaints here. Contact your reseller, or CNC Software directly if you have issues with your reseller. This is the only way to check the veracity of your claim, and your status as a licensed user.

Feel free to comment on this action, but refrain from commenting on your reseller.

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 07-25-2001).]

[Elad]

Dictator Webmaster!

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Apparently some people don't like to look bad. Perhaps the quality of service will improve for some of our listeners as a result of having the dealer's name sprayed in cyberspace as it was.

As always, if you have copmplaints, you can air them to CNC Software directly. They take their reseller network very seriously.

That's pretty bogus that some resellers wanted to shut down the BB completely. I understand their reasoning. I'm sure some criminals, errrrrr, bootleggers (the lowest form of life on the planet next to pond scum) are becoming quite educated in here but legitimate users are getting a tremendous level of support that perhaps they have not had before.

JMO

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James M.

Mastercam Enthusiast

[cadcam]

Reprise from Cadcam,

The past post was not to become a flaming contest about your dealer.

I guess I should have asked the questions a little differently.

It was intended to see some basic opinions but with out really finger pointing, trying to see how we can make sure that customers are getting what they would want or like to see along with suggestions.

All so hopefully helping my future customers down the road.

“This is intended to give my apology to the resellers that were hurt buy this post.”

Sincerely, jay Kramer (aka Cadcam)

 

[marco]

cadcam

The only resellers hurt from your post.

Are the ones not giving customers what

they are looking for. Instead of taking

action on shutting dowm the forum they

should take action on improving their service.

[L Hanft]

I agree. Most or at least many of the comments shouted words of praise for the dealer support network. Those few dealers that failed to meet expectations could also read the glowing by end users with outstanding customer support. CNC software should use the thread to assist unresponsive resellers.... if all the resellers were upo to speed there would not be a "negative" remarks........ I understand that no business likes to see negative remarks but..... truth always stings alittle.......

[Guy]

amen!

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Guillaume Côté

Hexco inc, Montreal Canada

Stainless steel specialist

[yenkls]

I agree that this forum or any public forum is not the right place to "judge" resellers or anybody else. We, "members of the forum", are not a court. If a reseller is not "fulfilling" a specific user's expectations, it doesn't mean he is in general a "bad supporter". If a customer feels like complaining, he should contact his vendor or CNC and not spread his bad fillings publicly.

Well done (Web)Master.

[Rekd™]

So why is it ok to discuss the GOOD points about the dealers and not the BAD ones...? I was under the impression that this forum was for USERS, not for DEALERS to show their shiny side.

But alas, it would appear that it is just being white-washed, and someone was offended by what may have been the truth. Too bad they can't just take it for what it's worth and try to do something to make it right.

Public opinion is crucial. And to supress it is un-constitutional. I did not have the pleasure of reading that particular post, so I may be way off base, but in my opinion, and it's just an opinion, if a dealer does good and can be praised on this board, then why can they not be told about doing bad?

Mayhaps Webby should delete ALL posts containing opinions about dealers/software/machines/programmers/machinists/computers/OS's/video cards/hardware/beer/cereal/lawnmowers etc etc etc...

Well, I just read the Agreement we all 'read' when we signed up for this forum. And in it's OWN paragraph, with nothing else, is the statement

Complaints about Mastercam resellers will not be tolerated.

So in my supressed opinion, I feel that praise should also NOT BE TOLERATED. If we're not allowed to know about the bad, we should not be allowed to know about the good.

[This message has been edited by Rekd (edited 07-25-2001).]

[beav700]

I also thought that this forum was for users. It doesn't seem that way anymore.I guess the new rule is: if you have something good to say you may speak if it's anything bad , then shut up.

I remeber some of the first posts from webmaster saying that he created this forum so that USERS can share knowledge,problems and opinions with other mastercam users.

That did for me. I'm out of here.I'm tired of topics beeing removed just because some dealer didn't like the content.

[This message has been edited by beav700 (edited 07-25-2001).]

[Michael Reynolds]

Man, I'd hate to see this forum go away......................................................................................

Mike R.

[Rekd™]

Agreed, Mike. But having your voice edited/removed is not worth anything I can get from or give to this forum...

If I want an opinion, I don't want it to be riduculed, supressed or hindered by 'the powers that be' or their 'sponsers'. Even if the opinion I request may cause someone to get upset by seeing how people REALLY feel, or how they percieve things.

[This message has been edited by Rekd (edited 07-25-2001).]

[MATSSMan]

I've been following this forum for quite some time and felt a need to post to this thread.

The people who feel that eliminating postings that are critical of dealers are a form of censorship are missing the point. Webby is simply following good business practice in eliminating these postings. Let me make the following points:

1. There are 2 sides to every story. We have only seen regarding the customers’ side of the story in the postings flaming the dealers. There may be other factors affecting the support that the customer is receiving. For example, if one of your customers hasn’t paid / refuses to pay for a tool or mold that you have delivered, how fast are you in responding to any problems they may have with it? Would you want this customer advertising to the world what a poor supplier you are and how bad your after-sales support is?

2. If you have an employee who makes a mistake of some sort, which course of action is more likely to have positive results:

a) Calling them privately into your office to discuss how to resolve the problem or,

Calling all of their peers in and publicly reaming them out for being a ‘screw-up’?

The Internet is about as ‘public’ as you can get and just as with option ‘b’, no positive corrective action will result.

3. Conversely, if someone does a good job and handles a project well, which action is more likely to result in future successes:

a) Calling them into your office, whispering ‘nice job’ in their ear and dismissing them

Calling in all of their peers in and publicly announcing the fantastic way in which the employee handled the job.

Once again, the Internet is about as ‘public’ as you can get.

Dealer / customer relations are a PRIVATE business matter between the 2 parties. A contract was probably signed when the software was purchased. It is up to the dealer and customer to each honour their end of the contract and resolve any problems that may arise without bringing personalities into the conflict. This forum is not the place for discussing business matters of this sort.

 

[cadcam]

Ok I don't know what to do here.

This is starting another problem & the bottom line this forum is here to help.

We all have learned allot from this forum and given allot. I really don't want to see it get shut down over a stupid thing that was supposed to help & not condemn people.

Can every one please calm down and move on.

------------------

jay/ aka cadcam

Precision Programming

web: www.ppcadcam.com

-------------------------

[JAMMAN]

I like my dealer and have never had a problem.We all have each others e-mail address and no one can ever stop you from complaining to each other. Negativity of any kind is bad, but I don't think anyone really wanted to hurt MASTERCAM in any way. Even if you hate the mail man, I bet you still read the mail.

[Webby]

The comments in the thread in question where largely positive - say 90%. These were also removed when the message thread was deleted. I feel this was a consistent way to deal with the problem. This way Rekd's concerns about being white-washed should be somewhat satisfied. Instead - for now - it's a total blackout on the topic of resellers.

If you think about it, reporting a bug or stating product concerns is fairly impersonal (although the programmers may be taking names...). Raising issues here about your reseller can definitely constitute a personal attack. Many resellers don't read the forum, so it really isn't the way to have your issues addressed.

Sometimes problem resolution requires a bit of venting to cool down before moving on to getting things fixed. Venting is emotional and isn't always completely rational. What we are saying is this is not the place to vent.

I should remind everyone that this level of censorship has occurred 2 times in 16 months of the board being active. It hardly defines the day to day activity here.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

........

quote:

---

I should remind everyone that this level of censorship has occurred 2 times in 16 months of the board being active. It hardly defines the day to day activity here.

---

I thought this was the first time myself. For the most part, I think we all do a pretty good job of policing(sp?) ourselves , and every now and then we get out of line and Webby has to stop the runaway freight train!

beav700, are you venting?

quote:

---

That did for me. I'm out of here.I'm tired of topics beeing removed just because some dealer didn't like the content.

---

He locks them on occasion, I think like 3 or 4 out of hundreds of posted topics does not constitute unreasonable "censorship". If people do not like any censorchip whatsoever, there is always alt.machines.cnc News Group. You are free to say whatever you wish about whomever you wish with absolutely no threat of any censorship. Though the people in there may flame the hell out of you if they do not like what you say, so take your pick, top notch Mastercam help or NG's where you may or may not get good Mastercam help.

JMHO

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James M.

Mastercam Enthusiast

[This message has been edited by James Meyette (edited 07-26-2001).]

[Dean Lindblad]

My apologies to the forum for my apparent lack of discretion in posting to this subject. This forum is extremely well mannered and informative and I do not wish to do anything to jeopardize its future or its content. I am not a basher of MC or its reseller group - quite the contrary. I have been a faithful and REGISTERED user for many years (I remember the DOS version running on a 6 MHz AT) and hope to continue to do so in the future.

On the other hand, my response (however inappropriate) to a posed question was my opinion (read the fine print "your results may vary") and as with all opinions is subject to change as needed. As I understand it, this forum should be a place for exchanging ideas AND opinions. Even negative ones. No one is looking to turn this into a flaming war -least of all me. The worst thing that a negative (or positive) opinion should do is trigger a little scrutiny. The only ones that need worry are the ones that can't stand up to it. I read, with great interest, the thread on VMC's. Positive and negative opinions abound but that doesn't mean I regard them as gospel. It does mean that I will keep them in mind and when I buy that next machine I will scrutinize these manufacturers more closely. Then I will form my own opinion and act on it accordingly. We will all be the better for it.

Thank you for your time,

Dean

[Kenneth Potter]

Why is Mastercam the most well known cadcam software in the world? Because of Mastercam great ability to involve itself with its customer base more than its compeditors. Its loyalty base is by far the best among other cadcam systems. IF venting on this topic has done anything is to tell those bad resellers & salemen to get there act together or lose there customer base.

HEY is there a process plan for Mastercam end users to complain or mediate a problem with a vender directly with CNC Softtware. What i,m really trying to say, Is there a complaint department??? IF so please post it

Kenneth Potter

[This message has been edited by Kenneth Potter (edited 07-26-2001).]

[Tony]

I have copied and archived Many of the key solutions to machining problems posted on this board.If the board goes down I still have some answers in case I can't remember off hand......Until VS. 9 that is!

 

[awheeler]

I know of a few other situations where a little censorship was acceptable-nazi germany, soviet union...

[Bob]

This is all getting to be rather OLD! It might be a good idea to put the result of this pi$#ing contest in the back of our mind's and cary on!!

[Luther_Heggs]

Well - off to start a thread on the FREE SPEECH newsgroup at alt.machines.cnc.

See if you can stop us from posting our opinions there - Stalin.

[yenkls]

awheeler,

What do you know about Nazis? What does that have to do with Mastercam's forum?

You are a shame to mankind.

[yenkls]

MATSSMan,

Well said. This were my feelings and you have put it real nice.

There are some kids here that hopefully will understand it some day....