What do you recomend? Mastercam X or ArtCAM Pro

[Jolly J]

Hi guys,

 

I'm a looking currently to buy an artistic CADCAM package and was looking at either Artcam pro or Mastercam X. Mastercam X seems very expensive but I'd like to get some views about what you guys think about it... I happened across the artcam forum where there was an interesting discussion about the pros and cons of the two softwares...

 

http://forum.artcam.com/viewtopic.php?t=803

 

I'd be interested to here from you guys

 

cheers

[Greg VN]

I tryed Artcam Pro for about 2 monthes. I had a project that was a little complex regarding a hand carved appearance and using Mastercam for that particular project was not practicle. I could not accomplish what I needed with Artcam so I had a sample part scanned for $2000. and run toolpaths with MasterCam Mill 9.1.

 

Shortly after that project was finnished Mastercam Art came out. I got a trial version from my Mastercam dealer. Watching the tutorials and practicing I was able to do a project using Mastercam Art. The project came off with no problems.

 

What I did not like with Artcam Pro was it was not easy to create simple geometry for the part. The demonstrator was struggling create a real part that I needed. In Master cam I could create the basic geometry in a few minutes. Artcam was supposed to be converted into a STL file to bring into Mastercam. The dealer could not show me how.

 

Mastecam Art is in Mastercam to start with so it is not a problem to work with.

 

I would not recommend Artcam to anyone and would deffinatley recommend that you look at Mastercam Art.

 

I hope this helps in your decision.

[bellyup]

me thinks this thread smells funny.

 

[gcode]

I think this guys siggy should be

 

Jolly J @ ArtCamPro-R-Us

[Chao]

Before I buy CADCAM system, I will thinks 4 things:

 

1, Functionality

2, Price

3, Support and services

4, easy to hire programmer

 

personally I can say Mcam rank top in item 3 and 4

 

regards!

[crazy^millman]

quote:

---

Compare Mastercam Art and ArtCAM

 

This is a good question, Let’s compare these packages so you can make an informed decision as to why you should buy one package over the other. I will be happy to answer the question to the best of my ability, and to your benefit. Also know that specific functionality changes monthly, so a function-by-function comparison would be outdated as soon as it was written, and would make anyone who wrote it look like a liar. We know that each package has unique functionality. We are all also aware that, no matter how much better one product is over another, if one software has that one function you need to make your specific product, or family of products, profitable, and the other does not, that function will determine your purchase.

 

This document will deal with major core issues. I am by no means an expert on ArtCAM, and do not wish to portray myself as one. I am an expert on Mastercam Art and have given many demonstrations to ArtCAM expert users. I will give you their comments on what they like about Mastercam Art. It is up to ArtCAM to tell you why they think they are better than Mastercam Art.

 

Narrow the field

 

The two big players in the Art game are currently Mastercam Art and ArtCAM, I would pitch CimiGraphi off the list. They have fallen by the wayside in the last few years. In the CAM/Machining arena Mastercam is the hands down leader, more people use Mastercam. An independent review year after year that Mastercam is the leader by installed seats, and the lead is getting bigger every year.

 

Support

Who are you working with and how can you get help? It is one thing to buy software, it is another thing to be able to use it efficiently, productively and longitudinally. You will need support, and a place to go to learn more from time to time.

 

CNC Software, Inc. offers e-mail support, as well as their resellers both industrial and educational. CNC Software is a US based company with 99% of their programming staff in the U.S. Dellcam is developed in England, and CimiGraphi is developed in Israel. ArtCAM is basically supported through an office in Toronto, Canada. Mastercam is supported by the most extensive network of industrial and educational resellers, not to mention user groups. Mastercam is taught in over 4,000 schools in the U.S., from Junior high to Universities.

 

There is a commercial push by Verizon on who has the best network. There is no question that CNC Software has the best support network hands down. In fact most of our resellers have been with us over 15 years and have been focused in the computer aided manufacturing arena for many more years than that. I have heard customers say that their dealer is just as valuable as the software. CNC Software has over 90,000 installed seats of Mastercam world wide, making us the largest CAM company by installed seats. (These are not all Art seats by any means, as Mastercam Art is a new product.)

 

The Companies

 

Delcam England, U.K.

Technical Support for the U.S. and Canada is in Toronto, Canada

 

ArtCAM: user after user has told me that they do not like the support they receive from ArtCAM.

 

 

CNC Software, Inc. Mastercam, USA,

Technical Support for US is manifold.

CNC Home Office Tolland CT USA, Technical support staff offers e-mail in a timely fashion, at no charge. Phone support is offered by local dealers.

 

The Reseller Network

Over 50 local U.S. industrial resellers with staff.

Many resellers sponsor user groups.

 

Educational Support

Educational Office, Gig Harbor WA USA

Over 25 local Educational resellers with staff

Taught in over 4,000 schools. There is a good chance your local high school or Vocational technical school is teaching Mastercam classes.

 

Trade shows.

If you go to a Machining trade show, you will probably be able to talk to us. We display at a multitude. Check

www.mastercam.com

for the annual itinerary.

 

International Support- CNC Software has blanketed the world with quality resellers.

 

Web Support

www.mastercam.com

is an extensive Web site with timely downloads to keep our customers current and informed. We also have steaming videos for customer education.

 

Internal Support

Mastercam has a number of internal support/Help mechanisms to help the user learn on the fly. CNC Software has won awards from the Society for Technical Communications on the quality and usability of their work.

 

Context-sensitive Help, wherever you are in the software you can press [Alt+H] and get help pertinent to the function you are in.

 

Robust, searchable help is available with [Alt+H] as well.

 

There are also movies with voice that explain many functions, such as extensive movies for Art showing how to use major processes.

 

Technology-How is Mastercam better than ArtCAM

 

Mastercam Environment-Power and flexibility-One Environment, One Interface

Art is an add-on to Mastercam’s full environment 3D design core and associative toolpaths. This core is what has made Mastercam the industry leader. This allows the user to dynamically rotate the part, and work on it from any angle or constructions plane. Mastercam associative toolpaths are also the industry leaders. Solids technology can be added to the design core.

 

Running Art inside of the Mastercam environment allows the user great flexibility in only having to purchase what they need now, thus saving money. In the future, if the user needs more functionality, they can just buy a new level of Mastercam Mill or Router. It is nice to know that funtionality you want in the future is probably already available, and just a new level away.

 

Art, Mill, Router, Lathe, Wire, all use the Mastercam core, if you start learning one, you are learning the others. One interface to many solutions, Mastercam X has menus, customizable toolbars, and a host of innovative functionality to make its interface the most productive for you.

 

ArtCAM is not in a full 3D environment. ArtCAM is not in the same environment as Dellcam, so if you need to upgrade, you have to learn a new interface.

 

Ease of Use-Mastercam Art State of the Art

As Art has been recently developed over the last few years, we were able to incorporate the most current technology to bring power and ease of use to the user.

 

 

Art History Tree-Art Manager-Design by Eye

A history tree is the most powerful software development to come along in years. SolidWorks made their name on this functionality. Mastercam Art has a full history tree called the Art Manager. The Art Manager keeps track of what you did, step-by-step, and how you did it. So you can go back at any time through the history tree and instantly adjust or edit each element to put the finishing touches on your project. When your customer wants something changed after the last review, you can do it in seconds. Mastercam also has history trees for toolpaths and solids as well. History trees are the state of the art, because they make the hole process easier and and more forgiving of design change, and we all need forgiveness.

 

Because of the Art Manager, the users can accept defaults to create a complex surface, and then quickly readjust it so it fits the image in the users mind. This we call “Design by Eye.” You see what you get, and how it interacts with the other surfaces, and then readjust it in a second to get what you want. You don’t have to be an expert CAD/CAM person to use Mastercam Art. The instant editing tool allow beginners to succeed as well.

 

ArtCAM does not have a history tree. When demonstrating the Art Manager/history tree in Mastercam Art, I have had expert users of ArtCAM tell me “Mastercam Art wins hands down”

 

Undo Redo and Lists

You can undo or redo a single function or a list of functions.

 

ArtCAM does not have Undo/Redo and list, associated with a history tree.

 

Dynamic Resolution, What you want when you want it.

This technology works with a grid of points. The more points you have, the more resolute the model and the more detail you can add to it. Using more points also slows the redraws, costing you time. So the best solution is dynamic resolution. Mastercam Art provides the ability to change the resolution at any time. You can drop the resolution to experiment with different design directions with instant redraws, and then increase the resolution at anytime to get a crisp model. Dynamic resolution is in constant use and is a huge efficiency boost to all users.

 

ArtCAM does not have dynamic resolution. In ArtCAM, you have to guess what resolution you need at the beginning of your model and live with that resolution through the whole creation process. The reality is that you usually select a higher resolution than necessary, as you don’t want to run out of point to define your model, thus committing to slower redraws than necessary. And, worst case, if you are too conservative with your estimate, at the end of the model, you may run out of points and have to begin again.

 

Presets-Save your knowledge

Have you ever filled out a dialog box and got everything exactly right, and then come back the next day and have to figure it out all over again? Presets allow you to save all the setting in the dialog box they way you like it. Just fill out the dialog box, and then go to presets and give it a name. The next time you come to that dialog box, you can just pick that name from the list and the fields are filled out just the way you like it. By using this technique, the software becomes more efficient and more powerful the longer you use it.

 

ArtCAM does not have this function.

 

Mastercam Art has better toolpath solutions - we can cut it.

Mastercam Art comes with more and better toolpath options to cut your design. After all, you spent the time to design it so that you can create it. When you add Art even to a low level of Mastercam, you gain the associative toolpaths that come with that level. Even at level one, toolpaths, contour, pocket, and drill, Mastercam’s toolpaths far exceed the competitors in robustness, strategies, and application.

 

Level 1-3 toolpaths are associative, which means that they have a history tree. If you change the geometry that drives the toolpath, the toolpath tree will tell you that it was changed, and ask if you want to automatically regenerate the toolpath to compensate for the geometry change. And like the Art history tree, you can go in and readjust any element, without having to redo everything.

 

ArtCAM’s toolpaths are limited, weak, and are not associative.

 

Solid Model Verification-See it before you cut it

So you have designed the model, and have applied toolpaths. Wouldn’t it be nice if you could simulate the cutting and make sure you didn’t make any mistakes, as cutting complex surfaces can take many hours. Or, make sure that you have the surface finish exactly right before you run it on the machine? Well you can with Mastercam. Solid Model Verification does exactly that. We create a solid of the stock, and then subtract the tool from the stock for every move. This gives you a solid model with every tool move represented, so you can inspect it and see every impression/scallop left by any tool. You can also assign colors to tools so you can see which tool made which cut. Zoom in and rotate it to see whatever you need to see.

 

ArtCAM verification is very weak compared to Mastercam.

 

Summary

 

I have worked for CNC Software, Inc. Mastercam for over 19 years, and what I am continually impressed with are three things that customers continually tell me:

 

1. The quality of the people they deal with at CNC Software: From the president to the local reseller, they are not only nice and smart, but they really put the customer first.

 

2. The speed of technology improvements: A lot of companies come out with annual updates that are just bug fixes, CNC Software delivers real improvements.

 

3. One of my favorites, “I had no idea what I bought.” This is in a good context, as users often tell me that had no idea of the depth and breath of Mastercam. I have had 10 year Mastercam users tell me they find new functionality all the time, and it was really there years ago. It was not that it was hard to find. Rather, it was as they grew as a user, they started doing more sophisticated applications, and then happened upon the new functionality that aided them.

 

Mastercam Art is easier to learn and use because it has a better technical core. It is stronger and more flexible because it has the same Mastercam interface and can be used with different Mastercam products and Levels. CNC Software, Inc. is the industry leader developing new functionality aggressively, Mastercam Art being on example of that. And as for the CNC Software user support network, they are uncontested in the industry.

---

I just thought it fit from their forum!!!!

[Greg VN]

Wow Ron

[FITIN IRISH]

DELCAM SUCKS

[Iven May]

Hey Greg

 

I like your story, always looking for good articles, could you contact me. I wrote the article abouve for marketing and sent it to them yesterday in reply to a customers inquiry ,my how fast things fly about.

 

[email protected]

[CAM-mando]

quote:

---

I think this guys siggy should be

 

Jolly J @ ArtCamPro-R-Us

---

LOL.

 

G, ya sound like a talking doll that keeps getting his string pulled

 

Dejavu all over again.

[Nick_AFRL]

OI! This is almost as bad as that guy from BOBcad thats keeps calling me at work.........

[gcode]

quote:

---

G, ya sound like a talking doll that keeps getting his string pulled

---

I may have been a bit hasty calling DBrianB

a salesman, time will tell. I have no doubt that

Jolly J signed up on eMastercam.com to hawk his

third tier CAM software.

 

gcode teh zero tolerance for salesmen

[jbert]

Two weeks ago the bobcad guy got pi$$ed off at me and told me to enjoy my mcam maintenence fees.

He called about twice a month,he hasn't called back since our last conversation.

[gcode]

quote:

---

Two weeks ago the bobcad guy got pi$$ed off at me

---

4 weeks ago he was probably selling used cars

at Big Bob's Autorama. He though selling Bobcad was a step up

[jbert]

They are a very determined bunch of fellas at bobcad central.

[Greg VN]

When we purchased our Anderson 5 axis cnc in 1999

I did not have any software to program parts. I had to design the parts in Autocad and figure out the math and write the programs by hand. I did this for about 6 monthes.

I started looking for a software package to help me program what we needed. I started looking in woodworking magizines. I ran across a full page add about Surfcam, it looked pretty cool so I emailed a request for info. Two weeks went by with no response so I went back to looking and I ran across Mastercam. I did the same thing, sent in a email for info. Within a couple days I got a call from Bryan Johnson at MLC Cad Systems in Dallas. He set up a time to come in and give a demo a few days later. It was impressive what he could do and he was so fast at creating the parts from scratch and setting up toolpaths that it seemed that they just magically appeared on the screen.

After the demo we discussed about purchasing Mastercam but we were a little nervous about the price. After about two weeks we made the decision to go ahead and take the leap to get into Mastecam. I got on the phone and called Bryan and told him we decided to make the commitment.

I swear that this is true, while I was talking to Bryan I had another call come in. My seccretary put them on hold. When I finnished with Bryan I went to the other line and it was a Surfcam Dealer who I won't mention his name, it was the same person that gave the Artcam demo to us. Of course I told him that we made our decision to go to Mastecam.

I have had no regrets with Mastercam even though as any Mastercam user knows there are times of extreme frustration when some things happen or don't happen like we expect them to in programing.

I am glad that Surfcam did not respond sooner because we might of purchased it. When I went to Dallas for training in Mastercam there were several other students that their company's had Surfcam. Their problem was in the support.

I will say that when I was looking at Artcam the salesman did keep in contact with me and came up here several times to help me to learn the software, but it was not right for me.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Well, obviously I know a little about Mastercam, but Art is something I have about 30 minutes experience with YESTERDAY!!!! It was VERY easy to figure out. It gave me EXACTLY what I wanted with a few mouse clicks. So from a n00b's perspective I was thoroughly impressed and it worked very well.

 

What I was doing was I imported a BMP of a cartoon character. These characters are to be on belt buckles. The BMP was clean, Art gave it the relief, I adjusted the settings to suit my taste and from import, to toolpath... about 15 minutes. That includes about 10 minutes of figuring things out because I know absolutely nothing about it.

 

JM2C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

:bump:

 

Just in case somebody missed my experience with MC Art.

[Chris Flint Two Ft Pty Ltd]

I can make this very easy for you.

I looked at Artcam Pro demo and one thing I found real fast was that I could not even draw a strait line with it, don't believe me ? try it they have very complex methods to draw basic geometry, which is hopeless, I am sure eventually you could get used to it.

I have had some very frustrating times with MC art ( ask Iven) But the clincher for me: CNC systems and all of their staff from the top to the reseller have been fantastic, nothing has been too much trouble to help sort out, Iven, Ruth and Bob Hill have been particularly fabulous ( no I am not getting paid for this.

My recomendation is JUST BUY THE MASTERCAN SEAT, you won't be sorry.

Chris Flint