O/T Get an education

[JAMMAN]

Looks like the economy crunch has reached my area and the fat lady is clearing her throat. I've been heard on this forum not evidently having enough respect for degrees because I have a long history of no education and a gob of experience. I used to get several calls a year from people itching to employ me and have never even needed a resume or to fill out an application. I just finished a disappointing monster.com search to find that even the 22,000 a year jobs are requiring a 2 year degree, and even the four year degree jobs start way below what I make. Wow, talk about blinders. The point is- get as much education as you can even if only to get a foot through a door. Ok, I'm through feeling sorry for myself!!!!!!!!!

[gcode]

I know what you mean. I'm going to be unemployeed

sometime in the next month or so and the want adds

are looking mighty bleak

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: gcode ]

[cadcam]

Hey Gcode what is going on with that company you are working for?

J

[Kenneth Potter]

Yes Ccode the crunch is getting very tight. & Education is getting the top spots for employment. But dont fear cause you have valuable experience & thats what keeps you in the door.

Keep the faith Dude

 

Kenneth Potter

[gcode]

jay,

The shop I'm working for is being shut down and liquidated. The whole shop was brand new in March

of 2001. Cool machines and really cool work, I

was having a blast working there. I guess if its too good to be true.....

[beav700]

Wow. I was actually going to start a topic about that. Just the other day driving back home I had a talk with my girlfriend about going back to college after looking at employment adds. I seems to me that a CNC programmer is a dying breed these days. There is couple adds at monster.com for Mastercam programmer and hundreds for engineer with cnc programming. Being CAD/CAM guy is not enough anymore. They want minnimum 4 year engineering degree, five years of mold design, five years of 3-5 axis programming in ProE , Catia, Unigraphics and MasterCam.

The last two interviews I went to was a waste of time. The wanted an engineer/programmer where I would design the entire mold, draw it up in ProE and cut it in MasterCam. I have done some simple mold designs in ProE and Unigraphics 16/17 but nothing even close to what they were doing in there. On top of that the jobs ware for $48.000 and $55.000 where I would have to take a pay cut and after an interview they offered even less because I didn't have a degree.

How many of you guys are engineers in here. A true engineer with a degree and few years of designing. I don't consider my self an engineer since most of my work is programming 3 and 4 axis CNC machines. I can draw up any 3D mold in Proe 2000/2001, Unigraphics 16/17, MasterCam and cut it in any of those programs. Done some single cavity designs that worked pretty good, but that's as far as it goes. Looks like getting a degree in engineering is the only way to get a job as a CNC programmer.

[gary dunn]

if we collectively all took a month off, they would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. maybe then they would start appreciating what we do for them. NOT

I have been doing this (moldmaking) for almost 30 years now and have never seen an engineer who could either machine his way out of a wet paper bag OR make a mold. Interestingly, i have also never seen an engineer who would admit it.

[Chips Ahoy]

I don't know about you but the engineers see the stuff I do an are intrigued. Wish they could do it / show me how to use that stuff. I don't think so!! I tell them it takes many years of hands on experience to do what I do because it also involves picking the right tools for the job. You can only get that by experience! I've been running cnc's for about 18 years and programming for about 15. Let them try messing with me. Rick

[jenks]

This is a question for JAMMAN.

First a statement, I am in love with Northern Michigan, the Lake Michigan shore, and the UP (before anyone asks, yes, I like snow). I am planning to retire in one of these places, and that could be any day now.

Secondly, is there much Mastercam work up your

way? I have vacationed in the area (mostly in the straits)a lot in the past 25 years and didn't notice an abundance of industry. I could not think of anything better than to live up there, and work with Mastercam. I had a chance to take a job in Holland, MI a few years back, but didn't. Now I realize I goofed.

I think you are fortunate to live where you do.

[Guest]

it will get better soon. the government is going to spend $375 Billion on military spending this year. i know the So. Cal. area will pick up.

[Travis_Buchanan]

CNC Programmers and good operators get zero respect. I'm getting pretty sick of it myself. I just don't know how to change it.

--

Buzz

[Kenneth Potter]

Cnc Programmers generally DONT own the machine tool or the Cadcam sorftware ,So companys can Pick & choose from a huge trained college degree labor pool in these bad economic times.

 

JMHO

 

Kenneth Potter

[Bob B]

it's not just cnc programmers- look at all the other positions placed in the want ads. most of the better paying career opportunities require a degree of some sort. i'm 22 and realize that college is something i should of looked into further and now have to do it the hardway and take a couple of classes at night after work each semester. but, it's never too late to start over. if any of you are thinking about taking classes, do it, you'll only be bettering yourself.

take care.

[Zero]

I'm 24 and I work in a model shop with 5 other people, 2 of which are my bosses.3 years ago, none of us knowing anything much about cnc,the bosses bought Mcam7 mill 3 and a retrofittd vertical mill.I took the 2d and 3d courses offered by the reseller(both 3 day courses) and sat in front of a computer for 12 hours a day (most of which at home with an antique compaq with a pentium 1... ouch).Work always comes in spurts, seems to be picking up again.Used to think I could get a job pretty easy in the industry cause I never had to try.Just hopeing this place holds out by the sounds of this thread

[Bullines]

Education shouldn't be treated as a last resort, but rather as an investment, IMHO.

[Trevor Bailey]

I agree with Bullines to an extent. Granted education in any work enviornment is the way to go, but what about people in the MFG industry who can not take the time off to go back/start school? Most of us in here have 10-15-20 plus years in trade. At what point should an employer say, "Hey, this guy/gal has 3 times the experience as this college kid who does not even know what an edge-finder is or what speed to run it. Maybe we should look at only experienced people." Now granted that may be wishful thinking, but when the college guy fails and crashes the machine or scraps a mold that already has 30 hrs of machine time in it, that is when the experienced person will prevail. The question is, "How do we get the owners of companies to understand this?" I do not know the short term answer and can only speculate the long term. I truley believe that experience will always WIN in the end. I would also keep the engineering and machining computer seperate unless in absolute necessity. If you do not have the engineering degree, get all the technical job-specific training you can. Even if you are above and beyond what is being offered, at least it will be something on your resume.

Sorry for the ramblings, but I feel the pain in the industry too. Beginning last year, I was in need of a job and was extemely worried. Fortunately, I was given the opportunity to show my experience and get a great job.

Maybe there is something we can do together for the machinist/programmers out there. Collective thoughts thru this forum would be a great start. I have my own idea that I am discussing right now with a close friend. I do not want to get anyones hopes up, ways of finding good jobs may not be so tough in the near future. Hang in there.

[Tony]

One of my Brother inlaw's owns a Trucking company...If I lost my job and Couldn't find one in a resonable amount of time, I would walk away from this " Trade" and be Haulin asphalt at $50,000 a year

BUT I WILL NOT start listening to country western!!!

Tony

Jackknife specialist

[Zero]

I agree that this forum is an exelent learning tool for anyone using mastercam from the beginner the the advanced.The expierience I get here is everything from 2d cutouts to building 3d complex surface models and then making them a real deal working prototype.I just hope that when the time comes that does'nt get rulled out because of my lack of formal education.I mean I spend alot of my time figuring out what the designers and engineers either did'nt want to figure out or did'nt know how to.

[Guest]

hey trevor, i would like to hear your ideas.if you don't mind sharing. i hear on the radio all the time now that all the JC's are in need of machinist trainees. they say there's a shortage. is there really a shortage? i don't see it.

[Scott Bond]

Good Morning all

I really enjoyed reading this thread

Thank you all for your posts.

Thanks Zero ,I live in the same world.

"""Their are a lot of resturants in town but only a few places to eat"""

[Trevor Bailey]

Arty,

I really do not want to get too specific at this time. The idea I have though, in my opinion, will be a hughe benefit for programmers and set up/machinist. Wish I could give you more, but I should not say any more at this time.

[Charles Davis]

For those of you who are looking for a job, I highly recommend you not limit your search to just job/mold shops.

Some of the best jobs I know of are in-house prototype and tooling shops. For example, Qualcomm has maybe 10,000 employees, and 10 machinist who make prototypes and tooling.

A friend of mine got a job at a medical company after 20 years in job shops. Better pay, better hours, better working conditions, and he gets a lot of honor from the engineers and doctors because they have to come to him to bounce ideas off to see if what they want to do is feasible!

Of course, you could come to San Diego, but you'll get half your pay in sunshine! (that is, the pay is no way on parity with living expenses for most blue collar types).

[Bob B]

just a quick question for everyone:

did you all start in this trade right from high school or college? and if not, which other jobs/careers have you been involved in? and finally, of those out there reading with degrees, what academic/ technical field is your degree in?

just wondering........

[Zero]

I actually didn't have 1 ounce of expieriance in this industry before I was hired here.I had been cutting lawns and trimming hedges!A friend of mine was working here with his father (who happens to be my boss)and got me this job when they were overloaded with casting 10 models of this train that went through this tunnel with a message on these blocks that changed from merry christmas to happy new year as it went through the tunnel( what a great job that was!).After that they tought me how to build models with a manual bridgeport a lathe and good old fashion files and sandpapper.Took the jump to cnc with mastercam and never looked back.We still build some stuff by hand but boy what a great thing these cnc machines are. I've got to give credit to mastercam for making the program so user friendly and still able to do some pretty complex stuff on.I've pulled of some stuff with mastercam and a couple of cnc machines(what a beautiful thing it is to see the 2 machines we've got milling away at the same time pumping out parts)that I never could've imagined myself doing.Just glad I have a little bit of job security with the fact that I'm the only one here that knows how to do the things that I do(boy am I glad I took the extra time to teach myself how to use this program).

Sorry for the longwinded ramblings but I too have enjoyed reading this thread and also putting in my little bit of input.

[Tony]

Right out of Highschool in 1982 I Found a Job at a Mold Shop, and started a Three year Apprentice program (Moldmaking).

I have been attending software/user Training as it evolves over the years.

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Tony ]