VoluMill for Mastercam X/X2

[esherbro]

Hello all,

 

In a previous thread on this forum, there were some questions about VoluMill, our toolpath engine c-hook for Mastercam X and X2. To help answer some of those questions, we've set up an interactive demo on our website. You don't need an account or anything, just pick a demo part, set parameters however you want, and click a button to make a toolpath. You'll see some images of the toolpath as well as G-code that can be copied into your NC editor of choice. Of course, if you want to try it on your own parts, just download a Mastercam client for X or X2 from our site and sign up for the 15-day free trial.

 

For those of you who didn't see the previous thread, a little background: Glenn Coleman and I were the principal creators of the Surfcam TrueMill engine while we were at Surfware. We left Surfware to create VoluMill (which has already beaten TrueMill in some early testing) with the goal of making available to everyone a toolpath that reduces cycle time while increasing tool life. The first incarnation of this is our VoluMill 2-axis pocketing service, with more to come soon.

 

The idea of a toolpath service that generates toolpaths remotely may seem strange, but it provides a number of advantages to the end-user: no up-front costs, remote processing that can leverage the parallel speed of a server farm, and automatic upgrades and fixes that are deployed rapidly without forcing the end-user to take any action or buy faster hardware. If you cancel the service you don't get to generate any new toolpaths, of course (just like you don't get to make new cellphone calls if you cancel your service plan), but the other side of that coin is that you don't have to pay a large fee up front to own a license of a product that becomes quickly obsolete unless you enroll in maintenance.

 

We hope you find it interesting and easy to use, and please let us know if you have any questions or comments. You can visit us at http://www.volumill.com for more information.

[spade117]

Has anyone looked into this?

[gms1]

I wont be. While it sounds great and im sure it works great, paying money for something that that will stop functioning period if I decide I dont need any more updates just wont ever sit well with me... ever.

[Guest SAIPEM]

The whole concept of this is a solution in search of a problem.

 

If the software can't be installed directly on a PC of my choice then it is of no use to me.

The fact that it requires an internet connection is a deal killer.

 

With CAM software going through market reduction in the number of players, it's highly doubtful VoluMill will be around at this time next year.

 

I can't imagine that the industry will embrace this subscription model at all.

[gcode]

quote:

---

If the software can't be installed directly on a PC of my choice then it is of no use to me.

The fact that it requires an internet connection is a deal killer.

---

that was my initial reaction to this proposal and it hasn't changed.

The ancestory of the toolpaths themselves suggest

some serious potential.

[cobra95kev]

Yeah Surfcam's true-mill is awesome. I was hoping when we got upgraded to the latest Mastercam release I could get away from using Surfcam but that hasn't been the case. It just can't be beat on hard materials like 15-5 when there alot of pockets and alot of material to remove. I really whish Mastercam would do what they can to copy at least the 2-axis version of true-mill.

 

[YoDoug®]

Cimco-hsm is the answer. It is as good or better than (IMO) Surfcam. It has 2D and 3D adaptive clearing toolpaths. The adaptive clearing is there answer to TruMill. I use the recommended cutting data from Surfcam as my starting point. Once you buy it it installs on your machine. We have a network license that is shared among 5 mastercam seats. It is also very in-expensive. The savings from the first job we reprogrammed with Cimco-hsm could pay for 2 seats of Cimco-hsm.

[YoDoug®]

Cimco-hsm has a 30 day demo available. The demo is full functioning. You can make toolpaths, backplot, verify, and post.

 

http://www.cimco-hsm.com/

 

I am currently working on 70 forming dies (10 sizes-7 each) made from 4140. I think a safe savings estimate from using the Cimco adaptive clearing roughing will be about 70 hours, plus I will get 3-4 times the tool life.

 

After buying this Chook and seeing the results it is almost mind boggling that there aren't more shops using this. Maybe there is and they are just keeping there mouths shut because they know it gives them an advantage.

[Tim Simmermon]

How does the Cimco HSM differ from Mill Level 3? Are the HSM toolpaths in Mastercam just as good? Just curious.

[cobra95kev]

Thanks for the tip Doug,

 

I will have to try this out. I have seen this before. I was kind of hoping Mastercam would buy this and build it in. I just talked my company in to buying the latest Mastercam release it will be a while before I can go back to them for more money.

[gcode]

quote:

---

I was kind of hoping Mastercam would buy this and build it in.

---

This is not going to happen.. and the amount of money involved is not as bad as you think

[YoDoug®]

The only real difference in Cimco-hsm to the hsm toolpaths in MCX are the adaptive clearing. The rest of the toolpaths are very close. The adaptive clearing toolpaths are the roughing toolpaths that use "peel milling" strategy like Surfcam and Volumill. Each have there slight difference but I think they are all very close.

 

I rarely use HST core/area roughing any more because the Adaptive clearing will beat them every time. There is even a 2D adaptive clearing that is great for parts with a boss/es. you chain the bosses and then chain the stock. Then it shaves away from the outside working in at the step over you specify and it uses looping motion to avoid more contact than you specify.

[Tim Simmermon]

Cool! Thanks Doug

[YoDoug®]

Kevin, It took some playing to get the results I wanted from the adaptive clearing toolpaths. If you have questions when you try the demo feel free to email me. Addy is in my profile.

[cobra95kev]

Thanks Doug,

An E-mail is on the way.

 

I did check with my reseller on the cost on this and it was reasonable. I am trying the demo now and will see if I can make a good impression on them.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Steve Hattori]

I can second Doug's opinion on Cimco Adaptive Clearing. It is a very good tool for roughing 2d or 3d stuff. I use it as much as possible, even on 5axis parts. The other Cimco toolpaths are very much like Mastercams new Hsm stuff, except Cimco calculates about 10 times faster. For example, an X2 Waterline finish routine on a 3D suface that takes 5 min to calculate, same routine in Cimco is done in about 40 seconds... I also think the Cimco toolpath is better for high feedrates, because it does a better job of rounding corners between passes, so the machine is not banging when changing direction- it moves on and off the part in radius moves, always...

Good Stuff!

 

JM $.02...

[YoDoug®]

Steve, I have not done a side by side comparison but I also have noticed increased processing speeds in the Cimco toolpaths.

 

http://freesteel.co.uk/

 

The link above is to a web/blog from the guys who wrote the algorithm for the adaptive clearing and many other toolpaths. They have some very interesting comments about Surfcam and other Cam software packages in their blogs.

[MIL-TFP-41]

quote:

---

except Cimco calculates about 10 times faster.

---

I am sold already....MCX's processing time on these paths is painfully slow

[Steve Hattori]

Doug, thanks, I will have look...

 

James, try free demo!

 

Sorry to hijack Volumill's thread, and sorry to be seemingly anti-Mcam- I'm not- Cimco is just really good add-on.

[MultiAxGod]

I liked the CIMCO look and feel but it wouldn't work on our cuts (slotmill and undercuts). VoluMill did.

 

http://www.emastercam.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...=1;t=026782;p=2

[Steve Hattori]

Hmm, I have used Cimco for undercuts, esp 2D contours under a lip or edge..but that cut was always done AFTER the contour of the edge was done. It even looked right in backplot and verify.

Are you using the slotmill for all of the routine, not just the undercut?

[MultiAxGod]

quote:

---

Hmm, I have used Cimco for undercuts, esp 2D contours under a lip or edge..

---

You must have a special version!!! LOL!

 

 

From Rene Moller Fonseca at CIMCO 3-26-08

 

Paul,

 

Yes, that is correct. The strategies only support flat, ball, bull nose, taper mill tools. Undercutting is currently not supported.

 

René

 

Can you show me how to manipulate it to do it since CIMCO says it doesn't support it? Generate and Accept buttons don't work with a slot mill described?????

 

quote:

---

Are you using the slotmill for all of the routine, not just the undercut?

---

Yes, the slot mill is all that is used and generates all of the shapes down the part (envision a crankshaft being cut from the end)

[MIL-TFP-41]

It seems to me that the cost of the VoluMill Subscriptions are pretty steep. For their 2 axis "Complete" package it winds up being $2360/year per seat. This is without being able to do 3d stuff...I assume they are talking about surface based geometry. Lets assume that when they do come out with their 3d system its $295/mo/per seat. $3540 per year...and this is for something that if the company goes out of business you are left with something useless. I really don't see too many shops spending that kind of money with a not-so-clear future.

 

On the other hand, Cimco's add on is something that you own. Say Cimco stops supporting it...it will still work, tho most likely you will have to keep the last supported MCX version to use it. Still, thats much better than being left out in the wind.

 

I think they have a good product, but their business plan leaves something to be desired.

 

BTW Doug...it is interesting to see what other developers have to say...well worth the read.

[YoDoug®]

Yeah, its nice to hear such a straight forward commentary from a developer. He has some very different opinions on patents and open source software than I suspect most of the industry does.

 

We are very satisfied with Cimco-hsm. It may not be the best solution, but it works inside of MCX, which is our only CAM package here. And thats the way we want it.

[Steve Hattori]

Multiax- I got it to work by describing the tool as an endmill with a large diameter and a small shank with short flutes- IE, 6" dia, .5" flute, 2" arbor, 4" overall length. Then, when you select geometry, you have to NOT pick any of the features above the contour you are cutting. I can send you an example if you want. Problem is, it will try to retract straight up and this will cause the tool to hit the feature above the contour. I have just added a point to go to in the nci toolpath editor, but if you have a lot features to cut, this could be tedious. If Volumill works, thats probably easier.

Lying to it WILL get you a ruf path that only engages the cutter by whatever you set you parameters to, and I have done it this way a in the past.