Mori Sieki NT vs. Mazak Integrex

[TOOLMAN]

I recently read the post NT vs. Multus; so I was wondering how the NT stacks up against the Integrex. I have thorough knowledge of the Integrex and zero with the Okuma. So I have only that to compare. We are thinking about buying an NT and would like some insight from those who have hands on with both machines. Also any comments on the post that Mastercam has developed for the NT, good, bad or ugly.

 

Thanks

[Mick]

Copycat Hehehe.... Sorry, just joking.

 

Well, I was told, a few points to consider:

 

The NT Y axis is horizontal, and with a considerable Y axis travel, it suffers from droop.

 

The spindle (chuck) and bed are high, making it difficult to load and unload (we have found this at work with our NT)

 

The chip conveyor fits into the machine from the end, meaning you basically need to have at least the length of the machine clear to the right of it, to fit the chip conveyor (we found that out the hard way too....)

 

The NT also has a "hollow" under the headstock (for the body of the steady (if fitted) or the tailstock (if fitted), which apparently makes it not very rigid.

 

Also, price seems to be pretty steep, compared to the Multus.

 

How that compares to the Integrex, well, I dont know, as I have no experience with the Integrex. I'm very interested to see how people compare it with either the NT, or the Multus, or indeed, any other Multitasking machine.

 

As for the post, well, both Inhouse and CNC Software, have posts for the NT. I haven't used th eCNC Software one, but I have tried the Inhouse one on our NT, and also the MT, and it rocks... I cant speak highly enough of Inhouses posts, or the people at Inhouse!

[Mick]

BTW, the feedback about the machines, Is info I've got from others in the industry.

 

So far, we've found the NT we have, to be a very capable machine. We've had some teething problems, but it is pumping out workpieces, and doing it pretty well

[TOOLMAN]

bump

[MAW]

We have an Integrex 200IISY. It has a 40 tool changer with twin spindles. Not a bad machine but does not have alot of Y axis travel. We also program at the machine not on mastercam. I have been programming it for 4 years now. The Mazatrol control is not user friendly on that machine.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You need to look at a Nakamura Super NTX if you're considering a machine like the Integrex or Mori NT. twin spindles, milling head, etc...

[crazy^millman]

If you want to compare an Integrex to the NT then you need to compare the E series the only one truly like the NT. Biggest thing I say is size capabilities. When you start looking at Spindle to Spindle NT has only smaller sizes. I am very happy with Rigidity of our Machine, and if you know the Mazatrol and then expect the NT to be the same go do a test drive at someone's shop and get a real idea in the difference in the control's.

 

What is your complaints about the E series Integrex Machine? Have you ever run one or programmed on? We have the E410 and it has no lower turret it is easy to program and the 2nd spindle programming is done very well. Of course the key is the IN-House post. Rocking post and makes all the difference in the world. NT have been covered a lot so have the Integrex's do a search should answer a lot of question.

[mkd]

Would there be a price to pay in precision for doing OD/ID turning using the mill spindle and not opting for the lower turret on any of these type of machines.

Where would you draw the line? +-.001" ? +/- .0005"?

 

Thanks to the greatest forum

[crazy^millman]

I say no problem with holding size that we have seen by using the milling spindle for turning. I would say +/-.0002 if the machine is warmed up and approached with the right method of roughing and finishing. This is on our Integrex E series Machine.

[mkd]

the inegrex200IVS i'm looking at has 25 milling hp which is alot more than others this size. Can it really handle it or should I be satisfied with a paltry 7.5 peak on the nt3200???

thanks

[Tim Johnson]

You have to watch out for the horsepower ratings. Mazak measures the power directly from the motor. Okuma measures their power ratings from the cutting tool. I don't know about Mori. If the spindle is integrated there should not be much of a drop off, but if the rated horsepower from a milling tool on a turret may have a big drop off.

[crazy^millman]

We do hard milling on our Integrex and hold +/-.001 and have no problems with power.

[mkd]

What i meant to ask is: have you ever took a full horspower cut and if so how did it handle it.

It's no good to have a million HP if the B is flapping in the breeze. if this was the case (not that it is) i would rather have matched engineering and get by with 7.5hp.:-)

[chowquoe^]

I have buried our Itegrex 200, and 300... 1.25 DOC by .625 with a 3/4" end mill tilted a 87°. Not sure what the load was but the machined handles it all day every day for over a year now, and to boot we run to gauge diameters to +/- .0007 on the same parts. Very rugged, very reliable. I will have to agree with Ron on being warmed up though.

[crazy^millman]

Well I am very aggressive and have no problem pegging a spindle, but on the Integrex I give and take what I think it best for the machine like any machine. You take a 14" gauge length tool and think it is not going to bounce around like a 4" gauge length tool doesn't then nope sorry. You can do a lot and be aggressive, but know what happens when you do it. If you are doing +/-.005 work then I would care if I am beating my B axis to death. You want to hold +/-.0005 then use practical approaches and I say that on any 5 axis machine. You looking to get 3 years balls to wall of the machine and then get another one not a big deal. Looking to get a good 5 to 7 years out the machine then run it like you want it to last.

 

What do I mean don't expect to take a 2" 18 flute inserted tool and take 2" deep cut in 4130 and think it will not effect the accuracy of the machine in the long run. I would get a 2" 4 flute inserted tool and take .25 to .375 depth of cuts with a highspeed machining approach with high shear geometry.

[mkd]

cool; that's what i wanted to hear! 87° should be outside the mechainical lock (every 5°), so the brake is holding well. sweet

[mkd]

I just got a quote on a Nakamura NTJX. This one was has a y-axis on the lower turret as well as the upper (ATC) head. It's "just" $500K!! You've got to be making some fancy parts to need simultaneous x-y interpolation on two sides of the part.

 

shesh

[crazy^millman]

Not really just means you can be doing 2 times the milling verses having to only use one turret to do it. Can be drilling holes on one turret and tapping them with the other without having to change turret positions. Dual Y axis travels would be sweet. I wish we had that machine I can think 4 jobs right now I could cut to 1 operation with a machine like that.

[GoetzInd]

You can also get the Nakamura with twin lower y axis turrets. That would be rough with MC though. Cant wait for MC multitasking to come out.

As far as wich to choose, the Mark series Grex and the e series are for two different types of parts in my opinion. I like to think of an NT as an E series integrex in a smaller envelope. Both The NT and E series have true Y, wich comes in handy when do face milling work when the double X wedge type machines run out of travel. I would think the double X would have the edge rigidity-wise though. That is why we chose what we have.

Also, the integrex has been around a long time, the NT is rather new. One thing you can't argue with though is the huge mass advantage of the NT.

I also heard from a mori employee that the NT is very touchy as far as what kink of base it is on. And, very tough to keep aligned. The Integrex Mark, Doosan Mx, Nakamura, and Multus have one piece lathe type bases witch are extremely rigid.

 

Mike

[mkd]

after reviewing specs and price between nt3200, mazak 200, miltusb300 and nak' ntjx we are choosing the mazak.

the nt mill spindle has no nuts for the price and we don't have a current need for the extra travel (but will regret not having it, i know).

the miltus has no b contouring unlike the rest which seems silly in this price range.

we would need alot of specialized work to justify hundreds of thousands of dollars for the nak'.

e-mc rocks!

[Mick]

The Multus has the B contouring option, as does the NT. Does the Mazak come stock with B contouring?

[mkd]

The Okuma salesman told me the b-axis countouring was available only on some other much more expensive machine.

it is an option on the Mazak; couple thousand dollar control (money maker) upgrade for: Tool Tip Point Control and Tool Radius Comp.

How does the tip control work? i'm assuming you post tip position and angle and the machine calc's the pivot point.

[crazy^millman]

Yes the tool tip is great on the machine. I would get them to prove out that you can switch from G68 to G43.4 and back in a program before they leave our Integrex with the M640 control alarms out and they can not tell me why. The official/unofficial response was we don't make that control anymore so no development is being put into old problems so deal with it. I do my best to try to avoid this when programming, but we have to reset the machine to get it to clear. So have them do a program through a 5 axis tip to a G68 workoffset shift on our machine then back to a 5 axis tip then back to a G68 so you do not have to deal with the problems we have to deal with.

 

Great thing with the tooleye is that all the tool offset are done. No need to do pivot distance from your posted code. Also talk to In-House for a post do not accept anything, but an In-House post!!! This comment is my personal opinion and is not shared and/or expressed by my employer and/or this web site or anyone affiliated with said web site or companies.

 

Will want to use the Mazatrol side of the machine for all your tool offsets. They can be accessed through your Gcode which is called .eia on a Mazak. Make sure they are getting the EIA option as well if it is still an option. Any question feel free to email me and we can discuss further.

[Mick]

I was led to believe the B axis contouring was an option on the Multus, but then, I could be wrong.

 

We ordered a Multus B400, and it is due here the end of March. We currently have two Mori Seiki MT4000's, a Mori Seiki MT253, and a Mori Seiki NT4250.

[Greg Williams]

quote:

---

I was led to believe the B axis contouring was an option on the Multus, but then, I could be wrong.

---

Yes you are wrong Multus has B axis Index only.

 

Contouring is an Option On all Macturn machines. Also A macturn can have either one or two turrets and one or two spindles