fundamental horizontal programming

[kccadcam]

I need some info on horizontal programming...

(I know, that's a loaded question...)

 

What I want to find out is how many of you program from centerline of rotation and how many of you program from part/fixture zero.

 

Currently, we program all of our cells from centerline of rotation.

Now we are starting to implement probing.

How do you guys deal with this?

The logic/calculations for indexing with the probe become a real PITA if the fixture or part are not in the exact location as before.

(I know, modular tooling (ie. unilocks) will take care of the repeatability issue, but we don't "do" modular tooling,,, long story)

 

If we change to part/fixture zero's it seems like the logic/calculations would be easier.

The post would recalculate part zero for each index.

 

What are you all using for probing software?

We are looking at PC-DMIS NC.(they are VERY proud of their software!!)

 

And now,,, (cough, cough) our company is looking at UG and Catia to replace all softwares (Mastercam, Partmaker, and Solidworks)

because they are supposed to be the grand do-it-all software (yeah, right)

Everything from planning to engineering to programming to probing to CMM......

 

What thoughts, opinions do you care to share??

(another loaded question..)

[Lars Christensen]

Programing everything from center of rotation.

My probing is a Renishaw spindle probe, that I program with "custom drill cycle" in Mastercam tighten into the macro's that the probe it self came with.

[heavychevy2155]

When you say our company is looking at UG and Catia to replace all softwares (Mastercam, Partmaker, and Solidworks) what happens to your old software. Do you delete it and start over, or what. That seems like such a waste, all the money and time then some salesman comes in and says (Yall don't need all the crap, you can do everything with our software, its super easy. Oh you want it to do this and that, its going to cost $$$$$ for the Add-on and 2months to set it up).

[Charlie Pierson]

Our horizontals are B axis indexers and we program from part/fixture zero. We do production type work almost exclusively.

I use renamed copies of Top(wcs/cplane/tplane) for B0; Front(w/c/t) for B270; Back(w/c/t) for B90. We program 1 part/location and G54-G59 or G54.1P_ to access the other parts on the tstone accomplished thru the use of custom macro B.

 

cp

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

CL of Rotation almost always with RARE exception. It just works better that way in my experience.

 

If you "don't do modular" (I'm assuming because of cost) you should consider coming up with your own system using Mitee-Bites/Pitbull Clamps and Uniforce Clamps. They are a cost effective alternative and easily implemented.

 

HTH

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

We do part zeros. 300 parts is a long run for us. If you want to do CL of Rotation with probing you could always use a shift variable.

[Walt R]

We program part zero here. I have done it both ways and much prefer part zero and a work coordinate for each index. The place I worked before moving up here used to program CL of rotation and my boss had written a macro to shift the wpc on the machine at every index to track the shift placed in a macro variable. An X shift became a Z at B90 and did the trig for other angles. It worked beautifully when the machines where both dialed in perfect.but abandoned that because if the machines where not perfect they where always chasing the zero and compromising between conflicting shifts on different faces, might need X+.0015 at B0 but Z+.0005 at B90 so you would use .0007.

 

When I interviewed for my current job they asked me how I set zero in Mastercam and when I told them it was at CL of rotation they looked at me like I was nuts. I had to clarify that I only did it like that because my then employer wanted it done that way. There was one guy working there that used to get PO'd because he would have to shift a part couple of thousandths and repost to change machines when he had just shifted the the other way a couple of days before.

 

Walt

[Walt R]

quote:

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If you "don't do modular" (I'm assuming because of cost)

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Its probably because it management is not the ones that thought of it. NIH.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

That's a shame. Obviously Modular is not a one size fits all solution but can be VERY adventageous in MANY situations, of course, depending on the kinds of parts you do...

[Guest]

modular just makes sense either way.

slap fixture on load program part and hit button even a cave man can do that.

center line or fixture zero. done bothe ways do a search and you will find many opinions. mine is they both work and have their advantages but, but, but CAN YOU SAY STANDARDISE?

[MotorCityMinion]

If its a single large part/casting, I would use cl of rot.

[Rick Henrickson 65]

I think people confuse C/L rotation and offsets. you can program from centerline and still use offsets to make your minor adjustments.

 

Programming from centerline is a great way to go but you need to be organized and have everything modeled so you know where parts are sitting the setup time is almost non existant and usually have a good part first try.

 

If your machine and or tombstone are not indexing correctly maybe it is time for some maintanance. why would you drive a porsche running without a cylinder or two.

[MotorCityMinion]

For those that may be confused, programming from centerline of rot x0, z0, are fixed values and usually are inputted in all the wpc's with the Y axis being the only variable. Minor adjustments is the key word here. We usually only deviate from true centerline when a machine is cold or a location is off abit and we have to maintain concentricity between bores.

[Walt R]

In my experience the use of CL rotation does not allow individual adjustment of each index. Every company I have been involved with that does this (and that includes the company above, I worked there) wants to use only one WPC for all indexes. I do not agree with that method but that is the way management has wanted it done. That normaly works great on a new machine but after a few years is when the problems start to show up. If you used CL but a different WPC for each index you would still be able to make individual adjustments.

[specv]

Part zero always, so the numbers match the print. I makes troubleshooting a lot easier.

[kccadcam]

I understand the differences between C/L and part zeros, but my main question is probing logic/calculations.

(Management is actually receptive to changing to what we need!!)

We are getting heavily into probing, checking fixtures/parts (locations, WPC, etc.) checking for clamps (idiot proof)

and hopefully some first article inspection routines. (with reports for inspection)

Obviously the machines will have to be laser and ball-bar checked regularly.....

 

I was wondering how many of you are using other software to program probes,, or is it just custom drill cycles in Mastercam?

[Charlie Pierson]

Nothing is Idiot proof.

Foolproof , perhaps.

 

[Guest]

quote:

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Nothing is Idiot proof.

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Nope, every time you think you have it idiot prof, they go and make a better idiot

 

 

[Ron Branch @ Verisurf]

quote:

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I was wondering how many of you are using other software to program probes,, or is it just custom drill cycles in Mastercam?

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I do it all in Mastercam to the point of the Dprint, Feature to Feature, True position tolerance, and updating the post right now to use the correct macro variables to the correct work offset when pulling information out of the control on our Integrex for a probing cycle. Case in point G54 uses 5040 to 5014 for the information off the actual position then jumps to 5240 for G55 and 5440 for G56 so now my post will take the fixture offset into account and change the variables to the workoffset used. My post also support extended offsets and my variables will support that as well when I am done.

[gaijin_2007]

If it's Renishaw probes you're using then, for me anyway, the only way to go would be Renishaw OMV.

http://www.renishaw.com/en/6253.aspx

AFAIK, it's the only product to include full machine simulation of probing routines as well as support for 3+2 (4 to 5 axis positional) applications in a single probing program.

[crazy^millman]

quote:

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AFAIK, it's the only product to include full machine simulation of probing routines as well as support for 3+2 (4 to 5 axis positional)

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You sure about full Machine Simulation??? Or is it part simulation???? There are a few companies that support the Integrex and Renishaw did not last time I checked and says nothing about it on the web site you got a link to Machine Simulation.

[Rick Henrickson 65]

I would think you could get vericut to do this

[gaijin_2007]

When I said (AFAIK) it's the only product to offer full machine simulation of probing paths what I should have said was it's the only one of the probe path generating software (eg. PC-DMIS-NC, Renishaw OMV, etc) that I know that does it.

Not saying there isn't just I never found one other than OMV.

 

Yeah, Vericut could verify the nc program for sure but I don't think it can create the probe nc program in the first place?

 

Well, the demo I saw they used a DMG 5-axis machine and it was the *full* machine - column, guarding, table, etc.

1 program was generated to probe multiple features on different faces of the part simulating the moves to clearance, table rotation, approach moves and probing path.

Looked pretty solid to me.

 

Other machines are avaialable apparently (Matsuura, Mori, Okuma, Mazak were mentioned) but whether the Integrex is one, I couldn't say.

You'd have to ask them I guess.

[Rick Henrickson 65]

Oh you were talking about CMM verification I missed that.

[crazy^millman]

Not trying to bust your chops, I am thinking about using it to verify nc code is all since I have nothing now. I do all our Probing for the Integrex like said right from Mastercam. Here is some sample code unedited.

 

code:

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(T40 | PROBE                          | EIA SUFFIX - .15 | MAZATROL SUFFIX - P)

N1000

#150=#5245

#151=#5025

#152=[#150-#151]

G20 G10.9 X0

G91 G30 P3 X0.

G30 P3 Z0.

T40.15 T30 M6

G91 G30 P3 X0. Z0.

G90

M300

M312

G94 G0 G55 U0.

M108

G0 B90.

M107

G0 X3. Y0. Z0.

G65P9610 X2.

G65P9618 Y3.4 X1.79 Z0. S2 W2

G65P9610 X2.

G0 G91 G30 P3 X0

G0 G90 G55 U20.

G0 G90 U0.

IF[#152GT.001]GOTO1000

M05

M6

G0 X3. Z0.

Y0.

G65P9610 X2.

G65P9614 D3.2 S2 M.005 H.002

G65P9610 X2.

G91 G30 P3 X0.

G30 P3 Z0.

G90

M01

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