Lower cost carbide inserts

[chris m]

With our business in the tank, expense reduction has become a major hot-button here, as it is with many of you other guys I'm sure. One of my tooling cost drivers is carbide turning inserts, about 90% Sandvik, and I am interested in any experience you have with some of the lower-priced insert makers [sumitomo, Ingersoll, etc] because their pricing is pretty seductive and I'd like to know what the 'catch' is before I step in it.

 

C

 

[ 04-27-2009, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Tim Johnson]

We had good results with Sumitomo several years ago. We switched to Carboly (Seco now) for better life and for around the same price. I've been out of the lathe side for several years now but I think we're still using Seco. I've only tried Ingersoll on the milling side and you would want to stay away from them.

[chris m]

Thanks, Tim

 

Come on, guys; you can't all be running Sandvik

[Dave.L]

For turning, Sumitomo (the lowest price and best performance) and Vardex for AL.

[gcode]

In a previous life I did a bunch

of small diameter (.5" to 3") bar

pull turning work in 303 and 304 SS.

It was my money that paid for tooling and

Sumitomo was always my insert of choice.

[robk]

For turning use mostly Kennametal. Pricing is a little better then Sandvik. We shy away from Iscar because most of their stuff is molded only(and their support is the worst-@ least in this area). I have never tried Sumitomo.

[Philcott]

Kennametal, Seco and Sandvik are moat of what we use. I have yet to be asked to find cheaper inserts so I am not help but I WILL keep an eye on this thread for future reference.

[Tim Simmermon]

We use Sumitomo for turning, Kennametal for grooving (Top Notch Style) and Iscar for Milling (indexable only). I have been starting to use Tool-Flo for the Top Notch grooving inserts, because the price is a bit better and tool life is rarely an issue for us.

[Mr. M]

Mostly Seco and Kennametal

[3R!< W3NG3R]

our sales rep recommended we try Kyocera.

 

They are half the price. Well we got better performance than any other insert we tried over the years for most materials.

 

I would recommend Kyocera. Haven't tried it for threading or grooving though.

 

[ 04-27-2009, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Eric Wenger @ ExpressMan ]

[chris m]

Kyocera is half the price of what? We use Kyocera inserts for certain applications and half the price of Sandvik they ain't. Keep in mind, of course, that we spend some pretty good money on carbide, so our discount structure is pretty aggressive.

 

KM has always been stupid price wise here, so I never even look at them, but I am always glad to hear about who is doing what.

[TR Mfg.]

We use mostly Kennametal right now but there is a local company called Cut-Pro. They are slightly cheaper than KM. I know some shops are using them and are saying good things. Will give them a try when we run thru our current stock. http://www.cutproindexabletooling.com/

[3R!< W3NG3R]

I was comparing to Iscar, Sandvik, Vardex, Seco, etc...

 

One thing to know is that we are a small shop, so discounts are not really heard of here. Also, we don't generally like the cheep stuff as it ends up being more expensive. But Kyocera saved us lots of time and money.

[Bruce Caulley]

Can't go past Sumitomo for good quality and low price. Their new AC830P grade is kicking arse on everything from K1045 to 316ss. As a general purpise grade I couldn't recomment them highly enough.

 

The Kyocera rep here has some inserts that he claims to be better than anything else in 316SS, but I haven't tried them yet. One thing I have found with Kyocera is that all their inserts seem to be specialists. Can't use the same for a wide variety of materials without a noticable reduction in performance in one of them.

 

Mitsubishi are also in the same league as Sumitomo, but I ran out of the grade I was using and can't find the box to tell you what they were.

 

I started with all Iscar in the turning section, but the price vs quality ratio isn't there compared to the others.

 

BTW what materials are you using?

 

HTH

 

Bruce

[Steve Hattori]

We use a lot of Sandvik here, but lately have had success with Sumitomo, and for precision finishing, NTK ground-edge cermets...

[Chris Wichlaz @ lpmachine]

We use a lot of Mitsubishi Carbide VP10RT in the lathe dept doing 300 series stainless and vardex V12K for aluminium work

[chris m]

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming!

 

Bruce:

 

Our main matl’s are:

 

6061 / 7075-T6

1144

4340 hardened 36-40Rc

Ductile Iron soft 80-55-06

Ductile Iron hardened 120-90-02

15-5PH and 17-4PH annealed / H1075 / H1150

Nitronic 60

[MIL-TFP-41]

Look into Korloy...their pricing is way low & performance is pretty good....they are actually owned by Sumitomo. Most places will let you "try before you buy" so you can't go wrong.

[bogusmill]

We are using primarily Kennametal & Iscar. I needed some inserts last week so I looked at them on the MSC web site at $17.?? and then I went to http://www.carbidedepot.com/ and found the same Kennametal inserts for $8.97.

 

[ 04-28-2009, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: bogusmill ]

[Hymen]

FYI-Iscar is running a promo till the end of the year taking 20% off all ISO turn. Only downer is that they are dropship only and you need to mention a promo code, AG1, to get the additional 20% off.

[chris m]

The Iscar guy is coming by in a day or two to have a chat. Those carbide depot prices are pretty good; is the supply reliable, or does it vary?

[bogusmill]

quote:

---

is the supply reliable, or does it vary?

---

I believe the qty. in stock is listed for each item.

[Gary]

iscar cnmg 432 about 65.00 box of 10 here for stainless anyways. Not bad I don't think.

Sorry if price mention is wrong. WE are small shop though

[chris m]

quote:

---

I believe the qty. in stock is listed for each item.

---

What I'm asking is whether they always have the same items for sale or whether it depends on what the manufacturers are trying to unload? If the selection changes all of the time that isn't very good for me, though it would still probably work OK for a smaller job shop or model/prototype shop environment. If the items are fixed, then I might need to look a little harder at them.

 

We'll see what my vendor base wants to do for me before I go too far down an unfamiliar road.

 

C

[Bruce Caulley]

quote:

---

Our main matl’s are:

 

6061 / 7075-T6

1144

4340 hardened 36-40Rc

Ductile Iron soft 80-55-06

Ductile Iron hardened 120-90-02

15-5PH and 17-4PH annealed / H1075 / H1150

Nitronic 60

---

Had a bit more of a dig...

 

For the ally we use Iscar CNMS for roughing and VCGT for finishing. Would have to look up the pricing though. Taegutec do a double sided VN polished and ground as well which makes things cheaper.

 

Hard steels and 17-4 we are currently using Mitsubishi MJ VP10RT in both C and V style. This is the only insert that we have found that will do an interupted cut on hardened H7A SS castings , which is similar to 17-4.

 

Mitsubishi UC5115 was the insert I was thinking about earlier where I couldn't find the box. This will eat soft and hard cast iron as well as high carbon and alloy steels. Needs a decent DOC though otherwise it won't chipbreak.

 

The Sumi grade I mentioned may not suit the materials you have listed, but they are the cheapest inserts in our drawer. When the rep is in next filling up our Garr drawer I will hit him up about other grades.

 

Here in OZ at least the Japanese makers seem to be keeping their prices low. Iscar is getting pricey and I haven't ever been a real fan of Kennametal or Sandvik, though I hear they are priced similar to Iscar.

 

On a side note, I did a stack of R&D on cutting GR5 Ti and the best turning insert ended up being a Seco. Can't remember the grade though.

 

HTH

 

Bruce