Haas Machining Centers

[gcode]

I would'nt buy a Haas or a Fadal for a mold shop,

but they are great machines for all round jobshop

use. A Haas is no MB or BMW, more like a good Ford truck.

 

I just bought my wife an Accura CL-S Type with

a 6 speed manual and its no warmed over Honda!!!

Honda doesn't sell the engine or transmission

that comes in the CL/S. That beast can chirp the tires going into 3rd gear at about 70MPH

 

[ 01-16-2003, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[Chris Rizzo]

Ok, so what is a step up from the Haas, but not quite the financial impact of a Mori? A used Mori is barely in the ballpark of a new Haas. You can call Haas, land one on the floor in a few days, and run parts immediatly. Were a small shop, and are skeptical about dealing with a used machine and messing with "debugging" or catching up on maintainance that may or may not have taken place..Anyone have any experience with the cincinatti's? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big Haas fan, but they sure are convienient..

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Anyone have any experience with the cincinatti's?

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We have 13 Verticals and they are the biggest pieces of boat anchor I've seen outsidde the Port Of Long Beach! I would never ever in a million years reccommend one of those. I'll tell you what, I'd take an USED HAAS over one of those any day of the week and 2 on Sunday!

 

Now I'll tell you what is good about them; you do get ample program storage space. Pretty much whatever will fit on a floppy you can run, and if you have the networking option (be prepared to fork over your first and second born for this), there is no theoretical limit. That's the only good thing I have to say about them. The control is a tempermental PC based Piece of $#!+ !!!! If it get's too hot they start having fits. No problem with the cold though. We have an in-house maintenance guy and he's busy (not on the Mori's either). I'll leave it at that.

 

Depending on what kind of work I was doing, a Haas is not that bad it's just that I prefer Japanese Machine Tools and I've had very good luck with all of them I've run.

 

JM2C

[Rekd™]

Tell us how you REALLY feel, James..

 

[Verisurf - Ernie Husted]

I still prefer FADAL over Haas.

 

15 years ago the mori sales guy told me that the FADAL would only last a few years. We went with the Fadal anyway. We now have 10 FADAL's, 5 are over ten years old and they all are still working great....we've cut many steel dies and molds ,titanium and inconal parts for many years, but the main reason I would recommend FADAL over Haas is because of the control. FADAL has a much better control then Haas. especially when it comes to high speed contouring and 5-axis contouring.

 

I wish FADAL would put there control on a bigger mill( 120" x 60" x 60" ).

 

Ernie

[Jack Mitchell]

Kjs,

 

To address the original question from your original post, sorry that I am not addressing the vertical machining centre question, this is yet to be determined.

 

“I have exp. with all these machines and please don’t be offended, but the Haas is a pretty good disposable machine”

 

“Good value for the money, but I'd take a used Mori Seiki over a new Haas”

 

“Haas has a decent machine; there have been some flame-filled threads about them lately on this forum, though…..”

 

Godzilla Dude – you’re response, I consider an impartial observation, absolutely valid from what I have seen, Kudos and best regards, (Jack Mitchell)

 

It’s a brand spanking new SL4 Haas lathe on the floor, four days ago – I am blown away by the utter disgrace of a quality machine tool – one look at the turret says it all, Mickey, Mickey, Mickey, mouse! – I cannot possibly comprehend!

 

I’ll give Haas this much; very nice, user friendly control, slick paint job with lovely guarding – take down these guards and measure the ball screw diameters; my guess is that a .03” face cut & .05” diametrical cut is about the most I will achieve with such a toy (real material is implied).

 

Guy’s, I am outraged at what I am looking upon as an inexpensive excuse of a machine tool; I am consumed beyond words; Admittedly, I have worked the Mori’s, the OKK’s, Guildemeister’s, Deckels, and the Mazak’s - largely Mazak’s – chances are that I am totally corrupt in my opinion (God only knows).

 

The turret of this machine tool is about 20% at best of a Mazak lathe of the same horsepower and size – Jim Karlhoff, speak up upon this travesty of machining; place our differences aside for but a moment, and tell it like it is!

 

Corey, I know you are very sensitive towards the feelings of other forum members and this is a good thing, but, I cannot help, but feel, that you’re laying down on this issue – really, really, large.

 

Jayson; If you’re going to demo this stuff at tool shows – then, I will definitely show up with the boxing gloves that Andrew alluded to, on a previous thread – I’m will beat upon you until you cry mommy, mommy, mommy, - Shame, shame, shame!

 

James, everybody knows that you truly love the Japanese iron – there is no shame here, in fact, I believe you like it even more than I do - step into the light, be proud, and tell us like it is! He, that will argue this point, can proudly paint the American flag all over this machine – and worse, stand up proudly and produce the end result.

 

I am totally appalled, beyond words, just look at the turret and tell me honestly, that you’re going to kick my butt – mono on mono with the Haas.

Haas salesmen beware; for I will eat your face, I will eat it hard, and I will show no mercy!

 

This response is light weight from merely observing the turret. The manual tool measuring deal is an experience in itself – what in the hell has happened to American pride? Are we so cheap, thrifty, and frivolous that we could ever pursue this horrid advance?

 

Go ahead; beat upon my presence, for I fear not the punishment from the Haas lightweights, pantywaists, or what ever they would call themselves. Even though, I have admittedly attacked my SoCal brothers in the past, I can hardly think that any of them wave the flag over this one.

 

Deepest and sincerest regards, Jack

[Jack Mitchell]

After that shot, does anybody wish to share a post for the previously mentioned?

 

My email is proudly placed on my profile - James, here is the opportunity to bury the hatchet, what say you? - and you know it's absolutley true about the Japanese iron

 

Regards, Jack

[Jack Mitchell]

Seventeen more posts - and the forum is going to get what it has paid for.

What is Mitchell going to put up as an avatar?

 

Come on guy's - I know you cannot resist another shot; suggest an Avatar, if you will - all will be considered.

 

Regards, Jack

[MACHINEMASTERG]

how about a haas sign with a line through it???

[biss03]

james,

 

i have to agree with you that mori makes the best lathe. we have 6 various size lathes and all work outstanding. however, i have to disagree with our problems are the exception. maybe its just us midwesterners that have trouble but we have 4 sh-500, 2 sh-630 and an m25-fh. right now the m25-fh is down due to a spindle problem that requires it being sent back to japan to fix. this after having a "b" axis rotary problem where the part also had to be returned to japan. we have a sh-500 that is down for a "b" axis problem that we are trying to fix ourself to avoid having to send it back to japan. finally, both are sh-630 machines have required extensive repairs since hitting our floor last year. fortunately the parts were able to be replaced locally including the way covers that came loose(which was interesting to see them repair. if i can get the picture from the maintenance guy i'll put it on here. the whole front and side of the machine had to be tore out). to get new ones they would have taken at least 3 months to get made and sent from japan. we have the same service guy every time and he constantly tells us that we are not alone with the problems we are getting. maybe its just the machines they made recently or something.

 

don't get me wrong, when the mori horizontals are up and running they are amazing machines and in spite of all the problems, i wouldn't want any other machine.

[KJS]

To all who replied to my first post I greatly appreciete your replies. They've been very helpful. To clear things up, we're looking into a VMC. The reason we gave Haas a look is the price. It's been tough to convince management that we need a new machine so now that they told us to start looking, we feel that a really high end machine may be a tough sell. We need alot of bang for our buck. We still have some shopping to do not to mention final approval. Thanks again!

[MACHINEMASTERG]

kjs just wondering the type of work you will be doing on the new machine and what type machines are you currently using ????

[chris m]

C

quote:

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how about a haas sign with a line through it???

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That's beautiful! Since I didn't see it anywhere else in this thread; no love for Matsuura? I'm appalled

 

C

[mold100]

Is it just me or does Jack have a way of making this forum an experience?

 

Haas VF4 nicely equiped 94,000

Makino V33 no bells or whistles 160,000+

Jacks presence priceless

 

 

Mastercam its everywhere,everything else is just cam.

 

I here by patent the rights to this commercial,so

what if its a credit card knockoff its good.

 

[ 01-17-2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: mold100 ]

[KJS]

MachinemasterG, About your questions, this will be a toolroom machine. It will machine everything from large plates to medium molds to very small copper and graphite electrodes. We currently use a Tree Masterjourneymen knee mill for this.

[Tony]

Here is a VMC "shoot out" we had a while back.

http://www.emastercam.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...t=001318#000000

[MACHINEMASTERG]

then definitly check out the haas toolroom mill we have one great for this type of work... just get the high speed look ahead for the elecrode work... and for around 25000 your set i dont think mori makes this type machine?? but i could be wrong it wont be the first time i also saw a few othermachine tool builders jumping on this band wagon best of both worlds some manual work some cnc automated work and real easy controll with a new conversotional option we like it for what it is

[ssibiski]

If you are going to look at a haas you may want to look at fadal too. Price should be close to each other.

We use our fadal's here to do it all.

 

The biggest key is to know what you will be doing with this machine. And use this to determine what you should buy. I have seen both haas and fadal machines come in the door and then 2 or 3 years later need to be replaced. But on the same note we have 2 fadal's that have been here for over 10 years and they are running just like they did when we first started them up.

And remember new does not = no problems.

 

Good Luck

 

ssibiski

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

OK Jack. You caught me. I love Japanese Iron and I'm not ashamed.

 

To me, the US Machine Tool Builders have become a disgrace to the Machine Tool World. Once a proud industry, now cowers in ruins! Ingersoll's BIG stuff, and maybe Cincinnati's BIG Gantry Stuff is the only stuff worth owning.

 

What's up with Haas STEALING Mori Seiki's Lathe moniker "SL"? ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!!!! C'Mon Gene, couldn't figure out something more original that that. I'll tell you what, those lathes' turrets - SICKENING.

 

That's my take and I'm sticking to it.

[McRae]

I have not seen this Chevy Vs Ford type debate get so heated since I socked Jimmy Baggins in the mouth for calling my Dad a weanie when I was seven.

 

Todays marketplace is a dark and unfriendly mix of cut-throat price xxxxes and slick haired, pressed suit mock value sellers. The key to making the right decision (whether domestic of foreign) is to right size a machine for the intended application. Buy a Haas for punching in a 1/4" circular keyway and buy the Matsura for 5ax profiling of turbine blades. Know your market and buy accordingly. I laugh at all the sisterkissers who proudly show their Nascar garages full of Haas machines - but then again, they only have to make something to last 500 miles or less. Hey Jack - what do you think - should we enter the competitive world of AutoRacing.

 

Jack - I emailed you your avitar...

[chris m]

This is off the subject but I had forgotten what a jacka** Multax was until I re-read that VMC thread Tony linked to.

 

WOW

[MACHINEMASTERG]

quote:

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but I had forgotten what a jacka** Multax was

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hey leave jack out of this

[JohnD]

Of the 3 years we have had our HAAS VFO we had only 1 problem with it, the monitor blew out, I gave the HAAS factory outlet a call not 1 hour later 2 guys in a HAAS service van pull up replaced the monitor and were driving out 30 mins later.

And I must say I dont recall a more accurate machine..I will always go with HAAS

[MACHINEMASTERG]

dont get me wrong im a haas fan as you can read from my other posts but just recently two new vf-4 machines in the first year on one machine new spindal and then the latest machine 2 mounths old 10000 spindal getting alittle hot about 160 degrees thats right another new spindal i hope this isnt a growing trend !!!

[Jack Mitchell]

Ouch,

 

I followed the link, I just had to finally know, I was weak and couldn't help myself, I now understand the comparison to this gentleman; How could you fine members make such a mistake in professional character judgment? This person does not show the redeeming qualities, kindness of heart, or the imagination of a true deviant, such as I.

I am assuming that this gentleman was banned from the forum for perhaps, some unprofessional conduct?

 

 

Regards, Jack

 

[ 02-02-2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Jack Mitchell ]