previous smartcam users

[cherokeechief79]

how many of you are previous smartcam freeform users?we are converting over to mc now and i would like to know your honest thoughts on the 2 systems.ive just been to my 1st 3 training lessons for level one.i thought that it would be a breeze for me(ive been using freeform for 7 yrs)but ive found that there are a ton more keystrokes to get the same thing done that i could previously do very quickly.are these all things that will become just as easy in time?our move to mc was based mainly on the pocketing routines(very poor in smartcam)and the lack of support on the product.

 

please your HONEST thoughts.

thanks

[Allan]

Welcome to the forum. There are several former smartcam users on the forum, I am not one of them.

When they discontinued the product, I thought of starting a support group for the poor souls. After a little seat time you'll love it IMHO.

 

Allan

[J Coulston]

This is a long post, just to let you know before you start reading.

 

I have been using MC for about three months. Like SmartCam’s user group, this group is comprised of a large number of very knowledgeable and very helpful people. These users hold MasterCam near and dear to their hearts the same way many of SmartCams users did.

 

I like MC L3 much better than SC FreeForm however; MC Level 1 is way way behind were SmartCam left off with Production Milling. I find there is probably 50-60% more work to create simple 2 ½ D tool path in MC. I am still learning and have resisted the temptation to use SmartCam for any new parts I program. MasterCam is getting a little easier and feels more familiar but there are a number of SmartCam features that I miss greatly.

 

The move and rotate commands in SmartCam are far superior that what MC has. The dialog boxes make it a lot easier to pick individual points and move and rotate parts in 3D.

 

 

 

In SmartCam levels are assigned to a color. Easy to tell what geometry is on what level.

 

In SmartCAM offset tool path G41,G42 tool is shown on proper side of tool path, not tool centerline.

 

Stock can be defined on a multiple layers, when verify is opened the current zoom and orientation is used.

 

The feature I miss the most, in SmartCam the WCS is the root level. Everything on a WCS is masked when the WSC is turned off. In MC I find it very time consuming to go into each operation group and Alt-T and Alt-P what you don’t want to post.

 

Things that just annoy me, but I’m learning to work around.

 

You cannot move, rotate, or zoom when the Operation Manager is open.

 

If selecting a chain, or you are in backplot if you hit Alt-O the current command should be interrupted and OM should open. I hate the ding.

 

I am learning to work around these annoyances but here are some that frustrate me to no end. Most of these are file and directory related, I am hoping some of these are fixed in 9.1. If not 9.1 they will defiantly be fixed in MCX.

 

MC will not remember the name of the file I just posted, MC wants to always post to the default file name.

MC will not save to the proper directory; even thought the proper path is displayed in header bar.

MC cannot see desktop shortcuts in File Get, File Save, but File Converters and Post will see shortcut folders on the desktop.

 

As for features in MC that are useful and beneficial and make my job easier, why would I talk about them, I take them for granted.

 

Tool path associativity, rest mill, pocket cutting methods, helix entry, reads parasolids. And the biggest plus, MC is still under development and a new SP going to be released any day now. That makes me happy.

 

John

[Oppiz]

John,

Amen!! You hit the nail on the head!!

 

I used Smartcam for 10 years and Nc polaris for 2. I've been using MC for 1 year.

[chico]

SC - 10 years left at V11.1

 

MC - 3 years

 

Most of my work is exclusively 3D. MC level 3 has it all over free-form. I think the present MC GUI seems cumbersome, but, I think you will see drastic changes in version 10. I agree with John, the move and rotate feature in SC was far easier to use and the color/level assignments made keeping track of multiple parts and surface groups a breeze.

 

However, the feature I truly miss, is the ability to snap to the perimeter corners and the center of a surface. In MC you will need to create curves and then snap to them still leaving the inability to snap directly to the center of a surface.

 

Your company has definitely made the right move in choosing MC, again, for many of the reasons John stated in the end. Definitely bookmark this forum. The individuals here can and do answer everything. This site will probably be your single most useful resource, especially the search previous posts feature. The free knowledge is incredible.

 

When you have mastered some of the tools in MC you will set all doubt aside and be amazed at the advancement in CAM software.

 

Good luck.

George

[heeler]

John,

 

Our M/C always saves back to the same file/folder. Their is a setting in the auto save that is to save using active mastercam file name. I'm not sure that this is what you want but maybe try it. Ours also always post back to the same folder as the last post in the same session of M/C. We have to click on the file name, but that's nothin. I'm not sure where to make it go to the same folder, but I will try to find it.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[MACHINEMASTERG]

i to started with smartcam after those anicam days but have been a mcam user since 1994 the best thing about smartcam was there macros!!! that blows mcams away i still cant do what id like with mcams macros dont get me wrong no mcam bashing here>>> just thinking out loud mcam all the way

[CNCme]

_______________________________________________

In SmartCAM offset tool path G41,G42 tool is shown on proper side of tool path, not tool centerline.

________________________________________________

 

I'm sorry,but I dont understand...

I didnt now there is a " Proper "

Side for the tool to be on

for G41/G42...I can use this code

on either side or in the center

...and climb or conv.

I dont think you have used the

lead in/out...xy stock...multi pass

...wear 0r reverse wear to the fullest...

This is a very powerful tool that

I find different ways to use everyday

and Ive used MC for 7-8 years

 

Take some more time

 

Tony G

Unemployed Programmer

[J Coulston]

I am not talking about code; I am talking about the graphical view of the tool path on the screen. Look at the graphic beside the “Compensation Direction” when you change the offset side the tool moves to the left or right of the blue arrow. The tool path is shown tangent to the cutter, not to the centerline. Currently I don’t know what offset property a tool path has unless I go in to OM and look at the Parameters page.

 

John

[heeler]

John,

 

I didn't use smartcam. So I don't quite understand your comment. To me the blue arrow just means what side of the geometry you want the cutter to be. You then select the type of cuttercomp you wish to use.

 

HTH or that you can help me understand what you are really saying.

 

Thanks

[P_Scott]

cherokeechief79,

 

I am an ex-Smartcam Free-Form user myself and have been "Smartcam-FREE" for 3 years and counting. True, some things were more convenient in Smartcam, such as John listed with the Translate and Rotate functions. Many things I will NOT miss about Smartcam which John didn't mention. How about trying to easily re-sequence the order of events in Smartcam after making a MINOR change to the toolpath. And then having to re-check to make sure the Prof. Top, Clearance, and Depths hadn't locked onto a previously selected entity. Or how Grouping a chain to make sure all 1001 entities in the group were all facing the same way, just to find one, .005" long line going the opposite direction.

Two more words for pining Smartcam users, DOS editor. No Solids support. No Pro-E converter. Missing surfaces from IGES that had to be re-drawn in Smartcam (not easy). Two files for post processing instead of one. Modify the surfaces and you'd have to trim toolpath using 2D shapes and hope you got every single depth of cut, then redo the toolpath, hoping your wrote down all the parameters. Having to manually calculate the offset for finish contours for draft walls. Hope you didn't miss an island that may, or may not be, at the same depth of the other islands for the roughing out of a large surface model. Limited surface toolpath routines, with limited directions of cut. No toolpath calculation for Scallop height. No High Speed toolpath options. No Filter within the operations. Type in all the tool information all the time instead of picking a tool from a library and editing to suit. No Material libraries.

There were many more things that I can't remember because I have embraced Mastercam whole-heartedly and never looked back. Things will take time to adjust. You will simply have to learn a different way. I can do things much faster today than I ever would have been able to with Smartcam. At the time I used it, Smartcam was the CAM package to use (or so I thought). Until I saw Mastercam in action. And that was over 3 years ago, in V7. It's so much better and Mcam keeps getting better every day.

John your arguments concerning file management may have to do with the Windows Explorer options more than Mastercam itself. Mcam uses Windows "Exploder" to manage files. Check your folder options to make sure you're "seeing" all files and folders. HTH

[McRae]

quote:

---

I can do things much faster today than I ever would have been able to with Smartcam.

---

Peter - All things being equal - the last three years could have developed teh smartcam product even further. With that said, I hope that everyone is at least more productive than they were 4 years ago when that developmemt cycle ended. Compair SmartCAMV11 to MastercamV7 and you will see that V11 was at least as good as v8.1.1 and 3 years to the mark ahead... Not to mention that Mastercam V6 had all sorts of multiple files to post! BTW - My EDPLUS package was windows based from SmartCAMV8 on thru... What is this DOS stuff you are talking about?

 

[ 03-06-2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Andrew McRae ]

[Charles Davis]

The hardest thing about transitioning from Smartcam to Mastercam is that Smartcam did things with toolpaths unlike any other system -quite strangly, really.

 

You have to just forget Smartcam. Once you get over that little hump with Mastercam, you'll never look back.

[CNCme]

_________________________________________________

There were many more things that I can't remember because I have embraced Mastercam whole-heartedly and never looked back. Things will take time to adjust. You will simply have to learn a different way.

_________________________________________________

 

 

You go girl...(guy)...you know

[Will Slota]

The very first NC program I ever wrote was in Smartcam. My boss said I was going to learn how to program. He sat me down at a computer and said here's Smartcam. No instruction just the manuals. 5 days later I'm getting my first article off the mill. I thought I was going to lose my job!!! Then he sits me down at his computer and says here's Mastercam. By the end of the day I made my first part. Boss asks me which I like better nad of course I said "Mastercam all the way!! Please don't make me use that Smartcam stuff!!!

 

Now I know this is a Question about old Surfcam users but this was 14 years ago and I 've never left Mastercam since. I've even turned down jobs because I didn't want to switch!!! I also don't think I'm blindly biased as I have demoed other software packages and never found any to really compare to Mastercam.

 

There is a real simple reason why Mastercam keeps beating out all the other cam packages according to CIMDATA. EXTREMELY powerful package thats easy to use.

 

Just my hunble two cents..

 

[ 03-06-2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: 5ax ]

[P_Scott]

Andrew,

 

Now that I recall, Smartcam did have an editor that was windows based, but the company I worked for never used it. Instead they used Microsoft's Notepad, which is grossly inedequate for NC code editing. Now with CimcoEdit in Mastercam, I have all the tools I need to produce and edit good code. There were lots of other things that I didn't mention and some of the things I did mention are minor but I felt I had to rebut John's statements about Smartcam. Scam V11.1 was comparable to V7 Mcam. I don't think it could ever be compared to Mcam V8 because of the advancements of full toolpath associativity, Lathe advancements and Dynamic ("Dynamite") Drafting, just to name a few of the many. Smartcam may have gotten there eventually if it had been in continual development. The development stopped with V11.1 and was never given the chance to move forward. From V7 on Mastercam just keeps improving. I'm sorry if I've stepped on some toes. Smartcam was a great CAM software in it's day. We're now in the 21st century so let's use CAM for the 21st century.

 

[ 03-07-2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Peter Scott ]

[J Coulston]

Heeler this is what I am trying to explain with the cutter comp. The top path is comped left the bottom one has no comp. MC graphically shows the tool path as tool centerline regardless of the Compensation Type. It would just make it easier to see instantly which way a path is comped on the screen, not having to go to Parameters would just same me some time.

 

 

quote:

---

John your arguments concerning file management may have to do with the Windows Explorer options more than Mastercam itself. Mcam uses Windows "Exploder" to manage files. Check your folder options to make sure you're "seeing" all files and folders.

---

I can see all the desktop shortcuts when I use Converters or Post, when I use File Get or File Save the only items I see are created on the desktop, no short cuts. This topic is related to some of the issues I have with MasterCams file management.

 

http://www.emastercam.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...ic;f=1;t=005407

 

 

I am going to set up some additional training with my VAR. I am going to take my box with SmartCam on it and say this is how I did it before, how do I do it in MasterCam. It would help my transition to have both programs side by side to learn the new procedures.

 

Thanks for all the replies; discussion will only benefit us all in the end.

 

John

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I guess I should bring in my old Windows 3.1 box too because I have some issues with how Windows 2000 Pro does stuff (or doesn't as the case may be). That sir is the degree of comparison. There is a reason SmartCAM did not survive. It's time to send the horse to the glue factory instead of beating her into dust.

 

Your version of SmartCAM is dated, what..... 1998??? That is EONS ago. Afraid of a little change eh? There are inherent differences between Mastercam and SmartCAM. That's the nature of software. I last used Version 9 Free Form Machining Module I think... It's been soooo long I forget. I'm glad I've forgetten all about it. I used it for about 3 years, three years too long IMO.

 

For file management, I use the setdirs C-Hook and this works nicely to keep my projects together.

[kccadcam]

John,

If you use comp in control on your comtour,

go to display in backplot and turn on simulate cutter comp it will backplot "correct".

[McRae]

James -

 

There are a few principles that you are missing, the intention of this thread is more to voice the features and benefits of a software that was used and sold quite successfully and to bring these features to the attention of users everywhere and to remind software development of these usefull tools. If you don't benchmark against your competition then you will never know how you measure up in the market place. The business reasons for not developing Smartcam are beyond the scope of what we are discussing and your little rants and opinions as to the use of it are out of context here. If the software had the benefit of the last six years for development, then perhaps it would be you close minded mastercam users everyware pineing for the good old days when a modified dos based software was the top dog...

 

Every now and then you have to look around to see if someone somewhere is doing it better - and to think that you are at the top of your game and can't evolve, then you have just signed your own death certificate.

 

I won't end my post with an OUT or say that this is my humble opinion because these are the facts, you can ignore them and make decisions based on gut feel and heresay but in order to become world class, you have to look to the world, both past and present in order to develop a sustainable future.

quote:

---

Thanks for all the replies; discussion will only benefit us all in the end.

---

This is the correct attitude to have!

 

[ 03-07-2003, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Andrew McRae ]

[P_Scott]

Kevin,

 

I don't believe that's John's issue with the graphical representation of the compensation. What John means is that Smartcam drew the compensation on the screen. Mastercam produces toolpath from the center of the tool, even if comp is used in the parameters. This shows up on the screen as if the toolpath is generated without comp at all. John merely wants his seat of Mastercam to draw the tool circle on the toolpath the same way that Smartcam did, so he could "see" the comp just by looking at the toolpath instead of opening up the parameters of the operation.

 

Point is John, I know what the comp is just from looking at the toolpath anyway, because the toolpath is to the left or right of the geometry that I selected and by the location of the entry move. If comp is on Control or turned Off, the toolpath is drawn overlapping the geometry. It's just another minor thing to adjust to in Mastercam instead of expecting everything to be done the Smartcam way. Not trying to make you angry, just stating that's how it is. There are many ways to tell what the comp is in Mastercam. It will just take some time to get used to looking at the toolpath and knowing what it's doing. The graphical clues are different but they are on screen. HTH

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Andrew,

 

You're right that development must continue, Mastercam must look at it's copmpetition. Believe me, I definitely do not want to go back to the days of DOS, true it had it's fine points but there are so many limitations now. What I'm saying is for the guy to "step outside the box" and try some new things, work with MC's configuration see if there might be a better way than the old way. Yeah I'm slanted towards Mastercam but it's because I've used many of Mastercam's competitors and even some for a few years. SmartCAM was the first system I learned so before somebody says "You like what you used first" I have to say in my case that is false. SmartCAM had it's good points but it is so far back now, why look back?

[Scott Bond]

Hi all

 

I haven't run SmartCAM.

I am just chiming in to say you guys have done a good job voicing

your concerns without bashing/slamming M.C.

 

Thank You all very much.

[CAM-mando]

I was a smartcam user for about 5 years started in DOS then windows. I changed jobs and went to a shop with no cam system. Shortly after I purchased Mastercam V5.5. As was mentioned it is a big change in approach.

 

After using MC for 5 years I went to a shop that was running SmartCam, I was there 1 and a half years and despised every minute I spent programming in Smartcam. Now Im back to my previous job and mastercam.

 

I think once you get the hang of MC, you will really learn to love it. Especially now with the associative toolpaths.

[cherokeechief79]

thanks for all the replies.i know it was the right move to make im just finding it very different.in sc i drew all of my geometry on 'layers' i would freely assign a level and a profile top to each one.i would immediately see graphicly how the thickness of the geometry looked.i would also make each layer a different color to easily hide it.in class we seemed to do everything in the green default 'level'

can i assume that 'level'is mcs equivalent to sc layers?

these are just a few of the things im really having trouble understanding......

 

1 the level layers thing

2 the lead in lead out does not seem to be freely assignable to each profile.it seems if i change it once all toolpaths by that tool are affected.

3 why cant i graphicly see my peckdrills peck?

4 why cant i draw an arc with a start and end at different z levels without going through the hassle of making it a helix?(actually sc wouldnt allow me to do this either)

5 when i open a new file why cant i see the last few files that were opened?it always seems to go right to the last directory.

6 drawing clamps ,fixtures and vices was easy on layers and they would show as solids in the graphical cut section in sc.you were even prompted as to which layer the stock and fixtures were on.it seems in mc they have to be 'built'as solids and saved as a special type of file to be displayed in the graphic cut display.

 

this is all i can think of right now(its 1 am and im still at work foolin around with this)

 

i have always had my programs post in a very orderly fashon (always subs with g97 local subprogramming)this made it very easy to add more parts or to easily only run g54 for 1st pc.i simply would put a / before the others and run blk del.all of our progs are structured this way but in class im being told that this is a very different and unique way of programming that will require lots of tweeking to the post.i put a sample prog at the end of this lonnnnnnng reply.is anyone else programming like this?

im sure this system is going to perform miracles for me in time but right now ive just got to get used to it.i really wish i had come onboard with ver 10 which im told will be much different.

some things ive really been impressed with are the pocketing routines and the ability to keep the tool down.

ive also noticed you can do flowline surface machining across multiple surfaces(not possible in sc only one surface)

right now the urge to just open sc and finish what im doing is great but i will resist the temptation and learn this new system.

thanks for letting me rant.

(btw someone said that sc was more of a dos based system,not true in the later versions and i see more dos based things in mc)

 

heres a typical prog we run,all are structured the same.

 

O0176 (FIXED K CLAMP OP#1)

 

(MAT=3. WIDE X 5. LG X .500THK)

(XY 0=TOP LEFT CORNER)

(PCS TO FIT FIXTURE FOR NEXT OP)

 

 

(TOOL=1,.687 dia. Twist Drill )

(TOOL=2,.500 dia. End Mill RGH RAD=0)

(TOOL=3,.500 dia. End Mill FIN RAD=0)

(TOOL=4,.250 dia. SPOTDRILL RAD=0)

 

 

G00 G90 G80 G40 G17 G49

T1 M06

(--- 0.688 DIA. TWIST DRILL ---)

(DRILL BORE HOLES)

M01

S3000 M03

G54 M97 P1000

/ G55 M97 P1000

/ G56 M97 P1000

/ G57 M97 P1000

M09

 

G49 T2 M06

(---0.500 DIA. END MILL RGH ---)

(RGH 2.000 HOLE)

M01

S6000 M03

G54 M97 P2000

/ G55 M97 P2000

/ G56 M97 P2000

/ G57 M97 P2000

M09

 

G49 T3 M06

(---0.500 DIA. END MILL FIN---)

(FIN BORES)

M01

S6500 M03

G54 M97 P3000

/ G55 M97 P3000

/ G56 M97 P3000

/ G57 M97 P3000

M09

 

G49 T4 M06

(---0.250 DIA. SPOTDRILL ---)

(CHAMFERALL)

M01

S6500 M03

G54 M97 P4000

/ G55 M97 P4000

/ G56 M97 P4000

/ G57 M97 P4000

M09

 

G00 Z6.

G54 X7.5

G00 G91 G28 Z0 Y0 M05

G49

T1 M06

M30

 

N1000

(--- 0.688 DIA. TWIST DRILL ---)

(DRILL BORE HOLES)

G00 X1.4375 Y-0.95

M08

G43 H01 Z0.1

G98 G73 X1.4375 Y-0.95 Z-0.75 R0.05 Q0.1 F35.

X4.1245 Y-1.5

G80

G00 Z1.

M99

 

N2000

(---0.500 DIA. END MILL RGH ---)

(RGH 2.000 HOLE)

G90 G00 X1.4375 Y-0.957

M08

G43 H02 Z1.

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.6 F80.

G41 D02 Y-0.757 F45. (F55.)

G03 X1.4375 Y-0.757 I0. J-0.743

G01 Y-0.957

G00 Z1.

G40 X1.4375 Y-0.957

M99

 

N3000

(---0.500 DIA. END MILL FIN---)

(FIN BORES)

G90 G00 X1.4375 Y-0.847

M08

G43 H03 Z1.

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.7 F150.

G41 D03 Y-0.747 F40.

G03 X1.4375 Y-0.747 I0. J-0.753

G01 Y-0.847

G00 Z1.

G40 X1.4375 Y-0.847

X4.0745 Y-1.525

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.7 F150.

G41 D03 Y-1.575 F16.

G03 X4.1245 Y-1.625 I0.05 J0.

X4.1245 Y-1.625 I0. J0.125

X4.1745 Y-1.575 I0. J0.05

G01 Y-1.525

G00 Z1.

G40 X4.1745 Y-1.525

X-0.2042 Y0.3005

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.15 F150.

G41 D03 X0.2939 Y0.2569 F60.

G03 X0.3375 Y0.255 I0.0436 J0.4981

G01 X2.4557

X4.7759 Y-0.0711

G02 X5.3225 Y-0.6999 I-0.0884 J-0.6288

G01 Y-2.3001

G02 X4.7759 Y-2.9289 I-0.635 J0.

G01 X2.4557 Y-3.255

X0.4375

G02 X-0.1975 Y-2.62 I0. J0.635

G01 Y-0.38

G02 X0.4375 Y0.255 I0.635 J0.

G03 X0.4811 Y0.2569 I0. J0.5

G01 X0.9792 Y0.3005

G00 Z1.

G40 X0.9792 Y0.3005

M99

 

N4000

(---0.250 DIA. SPOTDRILL ---)

(CHAMFERALL)

G90 G00 X1.4875 Y-0.647

M08

G43 H04 Z1.

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.05 F65.

G41 D04 Y-0.597

G03 X1.4375 Y-0.547 I-0.05 J0.

X1.4375 Y-0.547 I0. J-0.953

X1.3875 Y-0.597 I0. J-0.05

G01 Y-0.647

G00 Z1.

G40 X1.3875 Y-0.647

X3.8745 Y-1.55

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.05

G41 D04 Y-1.575

G03 X4.1245 Y-1.825 I0.25 J0.

X4.1245 Y-1.825 I0. J0.325

X4.3745 Y-1.575 I0. J0.25

G01 Y-1.55

G00 Z1.

G40 X4.3745 Y-1.55

X0.2292 Y0.0541

Z0.05

G01 Z-0.055

G41 D04 X0.3288 Y0.0454

G03 X0.3375 Y0.045 I0.0087 J0.0996

G01 X2.441

X4.7466 Y-0.279

G02 X5.1125 Y-0.6999 I-0.0591 J-0.4209

G01 Y-2.3001

G02 X4.7466 Y-2.721 I-0.425 J0.

G01 X2.441 Y-3.045

X0.4375

G02 X0.0125 Y-2.62 I0. J0.425

G01 Y-0.38

G02 X0.4375 Y0.045 I0.425 J0.

G01 X0.5375

G03 X0.5462 Y0.0454 I0. J0.1

G01 X0.6458 Y0.0541

G00 Z1.

G40 X0.6458 Y0.0541

M99

 

[ 03-08-2003, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: cherokeechief79 ]