previous smartcam users

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Now we're getting somewhere. I'll give a shot at addressing each point.

 

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1 the level layers thing

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First off, the term "Layers" was introduced to us by Autodesk I believe. It gave CAD people a relatively clean way to organize their drawings. In Mastercam using the EA (Entity Attributes) Manager, you have about the same amount of power as you do in AutoCAD. You can specify certain colors to go on certain levels, certain entity Types go on certain levels, etc... I woudl sugggest you set up a system for setting up your level management scheme. I use Levels 1 to 9 for originating geometry, Part Solids, Material, etc... Levels 10 to 19 are for all toolpath related geometry and view creation lines for the first operation. Levels 20 to 29 are the same as Levels 10 - 19 except for being for the second operation. Levels 30 to 39 are for third op so on snd so on. Level 70 to 109 are for miscellaneous things. Levels 110 to 119 are for the opposite part op 1. Levels 120 to 129 are for the opposite second operation, ect... Levels 170 to 210 are for miscellaneous. Level 201 is for first operation fixture stuff, level 202 is for second op fixtures , etc... Level 211 is for first operation fixtures for the opposite part, level 212 is for second op fixture, etc... Levels 250 to 255 is for Blanked entities.

 

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2 the lead in lead out does not seem to be freely assignable to each profile.it seems if i change it once all toolpaths by that tool are affected.

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Most parameters get set in the Defaults, then as you use the different toolpaths, they can change according to what changes you made in the previous operation. I believe there is a setting to turn that function off, then they will stay as they are set in the Defaults.

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3 why cant i graphicly see my peckdrills peck?

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Because since every control deals with canned cycles differently, I'm assuming that CNC did not want to have to deal with graphically showing Fanuc Style, then when someone like me comes along with P.O.S. Cincinati's which is different, having to do that. I've never had a problem with that, because when I step through in backplot, it shows the feed, retract, clearance, etc.. correctly and that's good enough for me, but perhaps it's not for everybody so if you want that bell/whistle send your request in to Mastercam.

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4 why cant i draw an arc with a start and end at different z levels without going through the hassle of making it a helix?(actually sc wouldnt allow me to do this either)

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You can, you need to be in 3D C/Plane.

 

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5 when i open a new file why cant i see the last few files that were opened?it always seems to go right to the last directory.

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You can, when you go to file get, in the dialog box right click and you 'll see recent files, go to that arrow and I believe you'll see your last 9 or 10 files.

 

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6 drawing clamps ,fixtures and vices was easy on layers and they would show as solids in the graphical cut section in sc.you were even prompted as to which layer the stock and fixtures were on.it seems in mc they have to be 'built'as solids and saved as a special type of file to be displayed in the graphic cut display.

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Yes this is certainly more tedious in Mastercam than in SmartCAM but it can be done. You do not necessarrily need to create a "special" file type. You can use existing Mastercam FIles, Parasolids, IGES files, VDA, SAT, MC8, GE3, and STEP files.

 

HTH

[cherokeechief79]

thanks james.

 

 

maybe we all CAN get along!

[Joe6Pack]

I will chime in with my 2 cents worth. I have been a smartCAM user for 13 years. I will continue to be for many more. The reason is, I have come to program the "smartcam" way. I draw my toolpath. This is fundamentally different than all other cam packages.

I was a tech for a Komo router/Router-cim dealer. Router-cim adds toolpath to geometry already created, similar to most current cam pkgs. As long as I accepted the toolpath as created, I was fine, quick and easy, just let it go.

I have my own shop now and use smartcam. I have virtually every cam pkg available and have trouble using any of them.

Smartcam was written as a pseudo cad pkg as well. I can draw faster in smartcam than in any other pkg I have tried. All options for creating a line are in the "line" creation panel; start, intermediate, and end points (x,y,z), angle, length, start tngnt to arc, end tngnt to arc, it's all there. I can pick individual x,y, or z; or a single point that represents all three. Simply put, I draw a feature where I want it, I don't have to create a point or construction line to reference from. It's the way we all work in smartcam and nothing else is close.

For simple 2d work it is a fantastic pkg. For surfaces and pocketing it falls far short. The toolpath inside pockets becomes broken into multiple paths and the same is true when roughing around the outside of a part. If you have a 2x4 boss on a 3x6 plate, the toolpath becomes broken where the side wall area is narrow. I can drill a hole with smartcam and have no construction geometry at all, one element, (a hole), these other pkgs require me to create geometry first and to make matters worse, the way they create the geometry is a mess.

If a shop is getting solids or doing mold work, they are forced to switch.

Moving, copying, drawing elements where you want them by using other elements as reference inputs are the strong points of smartcam. The canned routines for pocketing, facing, and some surfacing routines are weak points.

Smartcam is just different, it works totally different than all the other pkgs and we have a hard time "relearning" how to do things.

Mastercam and Gibbs seem to be the way most users are going and forums like this will certainly help us transition. One thing for us old timers, when we get a pkg we like, we stick with it.

 

Bob

[cherokeechief79]

am i correct that 2-d geometry in mc will always be drawn on one level?

a z level of zero?

if i draw features that are from the other side of the part that i want to design around from the side im working on now,wouldnt i at least have them another color so i could hide them ?everything we do i have to design myself ,we get no prints or any kind of graphic file at all.everything is drawn directly in the cam system.

sorry if some of these questions seem like im just a beginner but these 2 cam systems are very different.

is it common to create geometry in different colors so its easier to keep track of whats what?

 

thanks

mark

 

btw how do i get an avatar to work?

[iowajim62]

Hi,

You can draw on any level by picking that level and even set the color by level as well. You can name your levels also. You just click on the left menu Z and type what value you want as well as click on geo to set Z. I draw my extra geo on levels by face name sometimes as well and also draw different colors so I can turn on and check overlaps and stuff like that. You can develop your own style and love it in no time. I've used several other Cam/Cad Softwares in 20 yrs and love to play with this one the most.

Welcome to the Forum.

200 posts on this Forum to get your Avatar.

[Fig sign]

I never was a Smartcam user.

But I migrated from the other very fast and simple cad-cam system.

And my story is like of the 5ax.

It took me one day to start using it ! (MC7)

And my first job was rather complex electrode with

aprox.20 jobs in it. And the result was success!

Never saw the cad-cam so simple and powerful !

You can use start using it in a simple way and learn things to be a power user .

Yes I miss a couple of things (like free mouse milling) but you can do it in a couple of other ways but you have a lot of other nice features

that you can hardly find in other packages and Mastercam is better from release to release.

The ver 8 was a great improvement and ver9 is even better.

Never had a job not being able to do!

Never had a drawing not being able to draw!

Never scraped a work because of Mastercam !

 

Mastercam is a real love of my life (after my wife of course).

It is a great thing to work with the system you really like.

And my message for beginners is :

Try not to compare MC with you former system but

to understand the logic and might of it ,

the speed of work will coe after a short time .

Good luck to everybody and success !

[CAM-mando]

quote:

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I have come to program the "smartcam" way. I draw my toolpath. This is fundamentally different than all other cam packages.

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I found this great for simple stuff. Really makes it easy to tweak toolpaths after they are created too. BUT I always felt like I was walking on egg shells when making changes to complex process models. One wrong click without realizing it and you can wind up on a treasure hunt to fix it.

 

 

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Smartcam was written as a pseudo cad pkg as well. I can draw faster in smartcam than in any other pkg I have tried.

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You are a better man than I. I always did as much drawing as I could in my cad system and imported it in SmartCam. In fact in the programming department where I used to work you would usually hear daily "I hate drawing in f@#$ing Smart Cam " Hence the nickname "Stupidcam". That said, I did like "grabbing" ordinates from existing entities (X from that line endpoint y from that circle center).

 

I actually started on Smartcam so I also had some unlearning to do. I had the advantage of being a long time Cadkey user so creating geometry in Mastercam was a pretty easy transition. On big change is getting out of the "Group It , Do Something to it" mentality.

 

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these other pkgs require me to create geometry first

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The flip side of this coin is working with custome models. Ive found smartcams process model approach to be a little cumbersome when programming from customer cad geometry.

 

It would be really interesting to see what Smart Cam would look like today if still being developed.

 

 

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am i correct that 2-d geometry in mc will always be drawn on one level?

a z level of zero?

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When drawing in 2D, geometry is forced to the current CPlane. If Cplane = 3D geoometry is drawn in true 3space.

 

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if i draw features that are from the other side of the part that i want to design around from the side im working on now,wouldnt i at least have them another color so i could hide them

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Are you talking about the ability to mask on Z levels in SmartCam ? I sometimes use colors as you described. You can also make use of Hide or Blank

 

¨ Blank. Blank removes from view selected entities, on any level, reducing the complexity of the screen display.

 

¨ Hide. Hide removes from view unselected entities, so that you can quickly focus quickly on a small amount of geometry.

 

And of course you can also manage entities by placing them on different levels.

 

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is it common to create geometry in different colors so its easier to keep track of whats what?

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Yes

 

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sorry if some of these questions seem like im just a beginner but these 2 cam systems are very different.

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Yes they are.

[Rick Damiani]

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4 why cant i draw an arc with a start and end at different z levels without going through the hassle of making it a helix?(actually sc wouldnt allow me to do this either)

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You can, you need to be in 3D C/Plane.

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This does not output a helix. What it outputs, at least on my system, is an arc in an inclined construciton plane. Is there a setting I am missing somewhere, or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

[Fig sign]

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This does not output a helix

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For ver8 use c-hooks Spiral.dll or thelix.dll

For VER9 create->next menu ->spiral/helix.

[CAM-mando]

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Yes they are.

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That was in reference to your comment about the 2 systems being different.

 

 

If an entity is a true arc in top view but has different z compenents it isnt an arc.

[cadcam]

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Yes I miss a couple of things (like free mouse milling) but you can do it in a couple of other ways

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Is that any diffrent then Mouse Machineing?

This what I have Mouse Machining This from Camiax

[cherokeechief79]

thakks guys.ill get it over time im sure.

at this rate (200 posts)ill have an avatar by the end of the day!

i can assure you it wont look like James Meyette!!!!!

[Joe6Pack]

CAMando: you are correct in that simple stuff seems simpler in smartcam, the pocketing/surfacing is a pain. I have gotten used to the pocketing/facing limitations for now but i realize that I need to switch.

I will switch to mastercam or gibbs eventually but for now i do just simple stuff.

Sure would be nice to pick on the upper edge of a multi level pocket and have it create the toolpath along with a nice finish pass.

 

Joe

 

[ 03-09-2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Joe6Pack ]

[Fig sign]

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Is that any diffrent then Mouse Machineing?

This what I have Mouse Machining This from Camiax

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Jay ! I`ve tried it. It is very primitive and far less strong from stuff that I had.

And not differs much from what I am doing without it (put number of circles and make multyline).

What I miss most is to see the pass hatched when you construct it.

The best free hand milling I had was in Auramill(who remember it?).

The one in NCtool from Cadtech isn`t bad too.

 

But I am not complaining .

Mastercam has a lot of other strong features and I hope that free hand milling will be implemented in the future .

[cadcam]

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Auramill(who remember it?).

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My father inlaw used it till he retiered a few years ago.

I got him started on MC but it was to late.

 

He did do some real good work with it.

Still don't know how he did some of the things he did with that software.

 

Oh ya and it was only on a Mac.

[J Coulston]

Where should we send enhancement requests? What is the proper channel, VAR or direct to CNC?

 

John

[Jack Mitchell]

John Coulston,

 

I only just realized that you did indeed purchase Mastercam after the initial thread “something about Saddam attacking the forum” – it’s been a while.

 

Welcome aboard even though I may be a several months late.

 

Bottom line is this question – what was the biggest factor that finally led to your decision to purchase Mastercam over the other contenders?

 

Regards, Jack

[McRae]

I think it was because of you Jack...

[Jack Mitchell]

Andrew,

 

The master of the one minute post.

 

Regards, Jack

[McRae]

How about another 3.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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at this rate (200 posts)ill have an avatar by the end of the day!

i can assure you it wont look like James Meyette!!!!!

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What's wrong with my picture?

 

It looks just like me.... on the inside anyway.

[pactec]

Cherokeechief...

 

Good idea to take your box to a reseller. Or, better yet, have one come show you how to do what you need, but in a side by side manner. They will be able to show you how to do things as if you say... "If I did something this way before, how do I go about it now"? This seems a pretty good way to prove out thing to your satisfaction. If anything comes up along the way your first line of defense is right there.

 

Good luck, and judging from what I've read so far, you'll whittle your list down quite quickly.

[Fig sign]

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Oh ya and it was only on a Mac.

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That`s true . And that`s why I so love Macs.

Auramill works even on MacPlus with Macos6 !

But the program is rather obsolete and dead for 13 years.

No 3 axis stuff only 2,5 axis jobs.

After 8 years passed I can`t believe that I wrote very complex parts with it .

[kathy]

Hello All

 

Another 'old' Smartcam user here -

 

The transformation in Smartcam (and Autocad, and UG, and Solidworks, and Catia) was totally superior to Mastercam.

 

I miss the ability to customize dialog box defaults by the single command that was available in Smartcam.

 

The ability to pick an X,Y or Z value in Smartcam always returned what you wanted - unlike Mastercam where you have to go through several dialog box prompts, and than you still get bombed out.

 

The WCS / USC system was far superior in Samrtcam than the current Mastercam scenario. In my opinion, Mastercam need to dump the CPlane, TPlane stuff and just have UCS's that are defined by origin and rotation. Period.

 

Smartcam may have stopped offering functionality, and the interface is clunky - but it was incredibly stable. All functions worked they same way each and every time. My biggest beef about Mastercam – the fact is that sometimes things work one way and other time they don’t work at all. Some other time I can provide a specific list – it’s quite long.

 

In Smartcam what you programmed is what you got. No intermediary files ( read - 'nci') to screw things ups. You could create any tool path in Smartcam that you wanted. On the other hand Mastercam does win over with the associative tool path. However, if I had one spot where the tool left the part and came back down (kind of a gap setting thing in surfacing) in Smartcam I went in, deleted out the path I didn’t want, joined the others and Volia – I was done. I don’t even bother with the tool path editor in Mastercam – too much trouble for what it’s worth. And I have used it.

 

Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss…. The Smartcam Job Plan function. I detest the Mastercam setup sheet and I have from day one. I want my part / job information to be an integral part of my model. I want to list out all my tools (in documentation) by tool number, not by the ‘nci’ file. I want to list under the tools the operations that use that tool. I want to save setup text, part numbers, part revs, etc with the model. And print out all documentation without manual input. I want the Smartcam Job Plan in Mastercam. Will I ever get it? – no.

 

All said and done, am I sorry we bought Mastercam when SDRC killed Smartcam? No – there are some very good things about Mastercam. But unless Mastercam starts addressing their functionality issues I can’t say what the future holds.

 

Kathy

James – btw – Layers (Levels) were basic functionality in early UG. Along with groups (and nested, named groups), construction lines, WCS / UCS and so on.

Well before Autocad.

[McRae]

Kathy,

 

A thorough list of old features that I also liked and missed. I never had to do any surfacing but the production milling for 3-1/2 Axis work was a treat. I miss the post processor files that asked you sequential questions that allowed the user to customize their post for another machine -or- to tweak the functions to getsomething different. GPost is fantastic for this as well - there is a GUI section and a FIL section for the times when the post needs a little extra love...

 

I miss the MACRO generator and the depth to which the average user could customize the software. I miss being able to manually sort drilling and endmilling chains. I echo the calls to the Job Planner.

 

Mastercam is much better at handeling Sub Programs though and the Dealer Network has many more useful people in it.

 

Don't look at this list as a want for Version X list but rather a compilation of features that would ensure MC stays for awhile...