O/T Fadal or Haas Toolroom Mill

[Sandybar]

Anybody out there using the Fadal or Haas Toolroom mill? We currently have 6 EZTrak mills and looking to puchase a 3 axis toolroom mill.

 

We have a Maho and a Mori for our Mold making dept. So we were looking for a cheaper 3 axis that will achieve good accrucey.

 

Any Pros and Cons to these two mills?

 

Thanks

[Rekd™]

I haven't used a Fadal in years, but they're not bad. I've heard they've done some good things with them as of late.

 

I have 4 2001 HAAS's and 1 2002 HAAS that I absolutely love. Great low-priced machines. Been using HAAS for quite a while, and have done some extremely trick things with them. They're accurate but lack beef for the heavy stuff, (this shouldn't be an issue for a toolroom mill, though.)

 

'Rekd teh "Where's the beef!?"

[MACHINEMASTERG]

we have a hass toolroom mill its good for the price... dont know to much about the fadel theres is pretty new ...the reson we bought the haas is we have other machining centers from them were happy with them and needed machines to replace like what you have... knee mills with retrofit controlls ..it could use better covers around the y axis theres is some coiled over shim stock a little hookey and you have to grease it in the morning thats right grease it no way lube system!!!

[Jammer™]

We bought a Fadal 4020, and a 6030 back in 1986. They were used as our primary mold making machines. Over time they have lost their accuracey. They won't even cut a round hole anymore. We haven't put much into them because we have purchased (4) OKK vertical machines and a Mitsubishi horizontal machine. We only use the Fadal's to square up cavity blocks now. If your looking to purchase a machine for mold work, I recommend an OKK. They are very nice, and easy to run.

[Trevor Bailey]

Stay away from Fadal. I would really be surprised if they are even around for much longer. I have recently been to their plant and looked at a few of their machines. Nothing they have can compare to the Haas for the money and reliability factor. I bought a VF-3 with highspeed option and a 15K spindle adn I got a toolroom miil. They have been great machines thus far. I really pushed the toolroom the other day. I was cutting mild steel with a valenite cutter(4 insert)2" dia going 1150 rpm and 85 ipm @ a depth of .125. It cut it like butter. I was impressed at this little machine. We also have a Fadal on our floor that I pretty much let coolect dust unless it is absolutely neccessary to run it. I have ran many Fadal's in the past, and I can not see myself buying another one. For what I got he above mentioned VF-3 for, their compatibale machine with a Seimens control and highspeed and 12K spindle, they wanted 45,000 more. No lie. I still have both quotes I would be more than happy to share with you.

[PE @ IHS]

I have run both Haas and Fadal machines and would have to agree that Haas is the better machine of the two.

[Roger Peterson]

Sandybar, I would have to agree about the fadal toolroom mill, I haven't heard too many good things about them. I would also check out the Milltronics toolroom mills. Their machines seem to be quite rigid with many spindle options and their controllers are very easy to navigate.

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

Milltronics

---

AAAAHHHHHH!!!

 

'Rekd teh Running Away!!!

[Sandybar]

Okay, seems like we are getting good vibes on the Milltronics. Anybody using one? What are the good points on it?

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

Okay, seems like we are getting good vibes on the Milltronics. Anybody using one? What are the good points on it?

---

The best point I can think of is that I don't have to use one any more...

 

'Rekd teh "Thankful I didn't have to start flippin' burgers just to get away from that damn Milltronics."

[Trevor Bailey]

I have not heard of too many people that like them. I know of one now that is pretty much a "paper wieght" because they bought Haas machines. This particular one I speak of, Rekd has experience on. His info given to you is from hands on.

[Tony]

We have a Hurco VM1 mini mill

It is about a month old.

I had to modify A post so that The table goes to Machine home postion at every tool change

Because the Z travel is "Mini"

Say you have a reamer hanging out of

a drill chuck It Could "Tag" the workpiece.

When the Tool arm drops down.

 

Rigid Tap

128 meg of ram

1 gig on the HD

8,000 rpm

X 24" Y 14" Z 18"

16 tool magazine

$36,000

[Trevor Bailey]

I have ran Hurco's before. They are pretty good machines. The only problem I had was the the control wanted to switch arc planes or something like that. The fix was in my post, but it was truely not logical, because I had to switch cut planes in the post.

[Dave1286490654]

Hass all the way. Fadals are throw-away machines.They dont hold location very well and the machines have very little adjustments. We were doing in-line bores 5. inches above-below each other and they were not in line.Go figure.

[Chris Rizzo]

Hey Tony,

I've been wondering about that Hurco mini-mill, it's a relatively new model, right? We've got a Haas mini here, that all in all is a decent machine...However this is the year 2003, where 99$ cell phones have more Mb of storage than a $XX,XXX Haas mill. Not to mention a Haas ethernet card for $3,000!

I really wish they would update the control. I feel like it's a system akin to NASA. Where they are so entrenched in 1980's (and previous) technology that they are looking for long obsolete shuttle parts on Ebay! Electronics, that is.

 

Back to my point, how is that Hurco, and any other machine with a "modern" control? I like the sounds of that Hurco with decent memory and I/O features. From past experience with some older Hurcos, I've found the iron to be pretty decent too.

 

P.S. I do like our Haas mini mill, but I also like to bitch! hahahahaha

[Tony]

Lets see...

The Good:

The Reverse Plane issue was

resolved two software Builds ago.

The Memory I bought at best buy for $14.00

there are two slots.

I Send programs over at 57,600 no problem

Has auto lube

 

The Bad :

 

The Z has a Counter weight "To keep costs down"

So it Clunks around.If your doing a lot of "Pecking" etc.

It sounds like a smoker

Stuck outside the fire door in the pouring rain!!

Boom,Boom...boom,boom,boom.

(I've read to many issues of Mad magazine in my day)

If your shop is "Loud" you won't notice it.

 

There are No software patches at Hurco

They compile the Bugs and In 6 months they come up with another Build.

 

Last but not least the Warranty is for 90 days only

(Again "To keep the cost down")

 

**** Stars

 

[ 04-04-2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You're much better off with the HAAS. IMO if the choice is between HAAS and Fadal, and coming from me that is saying ALOT!

 

Whatever you do say away from Milltronics and Hurco. Hurco sucks and I would never buy a machine from them because of one reason - the owner(s). A while back they (Hurco) sued EVERY control maker that had a programming system in the control for "Patent Infringement". Fanuc, Mazak, Haas, etc... Everybody but HAAS settled. Gene Haas was the only one I know of with nads big enough to tell Hurco where they could stick it and that he'd see 'em in court. Hurco eventually lost the suit. IDIOTS!

 

JM2C

[Tony]

Oops almost forgot a few more Bads...

The entire machine is made in Taiwan

Even The keyboard is 50/50 Chinese, English

 

(Remember I work for the company that would

Buy a wire machine from ENCO

if they made them)

 

Minus one star =

*** Stars

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

sued EVERY control maker that had a programming system in the control

---

You mean like HAAS's Quick Code and the like?

 

That's not a matter of nads, that's a matter of common sense. That's like putting copyrights on, say, a flashing becon, a swing arm tool changer. If those other companies settled, they need to replace their lawyers.

 

'Rekd teh "Even I know better than that!"

[Jack Mitchell]

The mention of OKK doesn't even rate for discussiion against the likes of Fadal or Haas.

 

Fadal used to be the inexpensive side of manufacturing about ten years ago ~ I cannot say where they are in todays marketplace but they were not known for accuracy back then nor arguably today.

 

Haas is only popular for the price and definatly not for their quality.

 

Bottom line is you get what you pay for and you regret what you didn't pay for whan it comes to producing the workpiece.

 

Yes I am once again laying down for another beating - but grant me this much - I ain't selling but nothing on this forum but my own attitude and ability or perhaps inability.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Verisurf - Ernie Husted]

quote:

---

Hurco eventually lost the suit. IDIOTS!

 

---

Correction

 

Hass eventually lost the suit!

[Tony]

Hurco was the first to come up with

The Conversational Controller

Or "Program at the Controller".

Thats their sale pitch anyways...

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

Hurco eventually lost the suit. IDIOTS!

---

quote:

---

Hass eventually lost the suit!

---

So who sued whom for what and who lost?

 

'Rekd teh Un-Informed

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

Correction

 

Haas eventually lost the suit. IDIOTS

---

We must be reading different stuff then.