Hardinge XV1000 Fanuc OI-MC CONTROL

[K10LT1]

Does anyone have any opinions or experience with this line of machine or any of the Hardinge/Bridgeport vertical mills? I have been looking at used machines and they seem like a good bang for the buck with lots of options. Also whats up with the Fanuc OI-MC control? Is it any good, how is the high speed look ahead and accel/decell? I do mostly 3D surfacing and would like a machine with good motion control. And I know that there are a lot of good machine brands out there but could we please keep the topic on these machines and keep this from turning into a who is better conversation.

 

Thank you very much.

[gcode]

I'm moving this to the Maching forum.

 

You might get some hits there

[Mr. Wizzard]

We have some generic machines here (VMC's) with the OI-MC control. Although the posts are not set up for automatic high-speed, I hand edit the G5.1 Q1 to turn it on G5.1 Q0 to turn off. It works very well for the surfacing and any toolpaths, really. I have it on all the time, except for drilling/tapping cycles, won't work with those on. Other than that, i would definitely recommend it.

[shazam/TPP]

we have several hardinge bridgeport machines and are satisified with them. we have the fanuc 18imb controls on ours which have some more features than the oI-MC but like Mr/ wizzard said turn on the high speed and you'll have no problem.

[K10LT1]

I have never used the g05 command, what feed rate would you normally turn it on with these machines? Also how do the XV, XP3, GX, and XR machines stack up against each other? I have a line on a almost new XV1000 and a couple of higher hours 760XP3 and I am wondering what is a better deal. What type of problems should I expect to encounter?

 

Thank you

[SledGeek]

I have used that machine in the past and am currently using a xv710 now. The xv1000 had the 18i controller and worked fine wit AI , it still was no where near the 16i on some of the other equipment. We upgraded that control.

The xv 710 we have now has the Oi-mc control and works fine with the G5.1 Q1, etc, as mentioned. Minimal look ahead ability even with AI APC turned on.(campared to other controls) The machines themselves are nice, accurate and dependable. I will, however, warn you that parts and service from Hardinge is less than admirable.Especially parts.

The 1000 had swing arm toolchanger that was pretty fast as well. This xv710 has the sliding vertical carousel that sucks. Coupled with the Oi-mc control, there's no toolstaging and no way to view your tool#/ pod relationship under the custom key. Makes for loooong toolchanges.The toolchanger set up hangs down low enough that your tools will inevitably get coated with chips and coolant. Also, there's no "interrupt" button like some other fanucs.

The 1000 had 8,000 rpm spindle and the 710 has the 10,0000 rpm. The 10,0000 has minimal low end grunt for highfeed roughing. I have err'd out the spindle a few times with a sumi 2" highfeed facemill. Anything over 100ipm @13-1400 rpm will stall it when the inserts are at about half life. The cutter should run a .03 chip load and on this spindle, it's more like .015-.017. I have run this cutter balls out on 8,000 rpm spindle on h.t. stainless,all day long

On small intricate 3d jobs , don't expect superfast speeds as the control and servos can only do so much.At least on the 710. I remeber the 1000 doing fine after upgrading.

I use the 710 w/Oi-mc for 3d and finish hardmilling as well as general stuff.It performs flawlessly as a medium duty and precision machine for me,just not the fastest controller for some intricate 3d contours,etc.

I don't know how the one your looking at is set up cuz of all the fanuc "pay as you play" options, just make sure they fit your needs. This info. is just the 2 i've had experience with, not set in stone.

All in all a fine machine

[Buddy J]

We have some generic machines here (VMC's) with the OI-MC control. Although the posts are not set up for automatic high-speed, I hand edit the G5.1 Q1 to turn it on G5.1 Q0 to turn off. It works very well for the surfacing and any toolpaths, really. I have it on all the time, except for drilling/tapping cycles, won't work with those on. Other than that, i would definitely recommend it.

 

We have 2 XV1000's w/ OI-MC's here

bare bone basic but OK.

When 3D surfacing I was using what I found in the book for look ahead, G08 P1/P0 and it helped smooth

it out some, got rid of the jerks and hesitations but I'm looking forward to trying the G5.1.

I know G5 P10000 R1; G20 works great on the fanuc 31i A5 we have

Our major Bitch with these machines is interpolating diameters. Move into comp on anything other than a straight line Y move @ 12:00 or 6:00 positions and the hole or diameter would be out of round up to .025!

And forget sweeping in with a radius

The distributor's Tech tried adjusting parameters to no avail.

Chip conveyor/sump design sux also but they pretty much do what we need them to.

We got them on the cheap..Bought new in 2009, built in 2006

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the SMALL memory, 256K!!!

Hope you like running from a card!

[K10LT1]

Everyone thank you for the wealth of info.

So I am sort of feeling a bit unsure if buying one of these is the right thing, especially for a one man, one machine (allready) shop who cant afford to have a service guy sleeping in the parking lot. Now I am not against buying other brands, but on paper the Hardinge's look great...do I reconsider?

 

Now I am sort of shook up at the thought of holes coming out of round by .025" just by leading on at an odd angle and the spindle stalling during a high feed op. What would happen if I was to profile the outside of a shape and I had a lead on at some odd angle perpendicular to a tangent point? (some sort of swoopy shape). But in the machines defense I have stalled a spindle using a 2" Ingersoll powerfeed high feed cutter in 1018 on a 2006 Vf-2SS.

 

So let me ask you this, in my searching for info I found a hand full of '05, '06, and '07 760XP3's and 1000XP3's. They all have 18i controls, 12k spindles, through spindle and are less expensive than the original 1000XV that started this post ($35-55k). I inquired and I received serial numbers while the salesman is rounding up hours and pics. Most are bank owned for a former business (RIP). So what wins the race for me a 300 hour entry level XV (per Hardinge brochure) or a presumably higher hour XP3 (from what I understand is their old higher model)?

 

Two more...

 

Does anyone have an opinion or experience with the XP3 series? And once I have all of the info from the salesman what do I do, call Hardinge for service records and book a flight for a inspection...

 

Thank you again

[Buddy J]

K10LT1...

Don't let my tale of woe about the out of round issue be a deciding factor.

I'm sure with a competent tech its a fixable problem. I'm not going to call the

company out by name but for the most part they, (he), is a R&R (remove and replace) operation

and so far the issue hasn't caused a problem on the right job for the wizards of smart here to press

to get it fixed.

[SledGeek]

Now I am sort of shook up at the thought of holes coming out of round by .025" just by leading on at an odd angle and the spindle stalling during a high feed op. What would happen if I was to profile the outside of a shape and I had a lead on at some odd angle perpendicular to a tangent point? (some sort of swoopy shape). But in the machines defense I have stalled a spindle using a 2" Ingersoll powerfeed high feed cutter in 1018 on a 2006 Vf-2SS.

 

 

I didn't experience the out of round thing, but arc in/out, w/comp was just errors....only in holes. I just use ramp and put a linear move in before retract.I haven't had any issues on lead in/out in a any other toolpaths in surface roughing or finishing and I use them frequently. Far as the stalling goes it all depends on h.p.,doc, rdoc, etc. Just saying that the 20hp 10,000 rpm spindle motor doesn't like .04 dp., 66% stepover at cutter manufacturers specs.

 

I would create a matrix, in accel, of what you need and what the different machines offer. It will help you eliminate some of the stuff and dial you into what you really need for your type of work. Then tell salesguy your ready to see them cut. If he really wants to sell, he will find a way to to this. Bring a part file/program with you. Be specific about the control options that are turned on. Without the AI APC(o-imc) or AI NANO or AI CC( i think that's what was on the 18i)these controls are less than acceptable for 3d contouring at higher feeds , imo.

[K10LT1]

thanks again for the help everyone.

 

I am having a rough go with these salesmen. Either I cant get an answer out of them on anything or they have nothing to offer me, shopping for used stuff sucks! Should I just buy a Haas...

 

I found a really odd machine called Emerge, its a VCM roller way machine with a 31i or 18i. Its a brand new 2009, the story is a company called microcut in Taiwan partnered with Milltronics to sell these machines only when the bottom fell out in 09 the line was discontinued and a distributor has been holding on to it since. Its a fast machine with a 15k direct drive spindle, side mount, TSC, conveyor, but I havent been able to find any info on what options the control might have. The machine retailed for $92k and is now $62k, seems like a good deal for a new machine with some really nice features and it looks like it has milltronics parts. I am not too interested but sort of intrigued. Common sense tells me that this machine could potentially be a huge pain in the a**!

 

check it out

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMERGE-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-Fanuc-18i-/130524993529?pt=BI_Mills&hash=item1e63e557f9#ht_730wt_952

 

Question time

Does a Haas come standard with decent accel/decell or is there only contour control in there HSM option?

 

GO LIONS!

[SledGeek]

thanks again for the help everyone.

 

I am having a rough go with these salesmen. Either I cant get an answer out of them on anything or they have nothing to offer me, shopping for used stuff sucks! Should I just buy a Haas...

 

I found a really odd machine called Emerge, its a VCM roller way machine with a 31i or 18i. Its a brand new 2009, the story is a company called microcut in Taiwan partnered with Milltronics to sell these machines only when the bottom fell out in 09 the line was discontinued and a distributor has been holding on to it since. Its a fast machine with a 15k direct drive spindle, side mount, TSC, conveyor, but I havent been able to find any info on what options the control might have. The machine retailed for $92k and is now $62k, seems like a good deal for a new machine with some really nice features and it looks like it has milltronics parts. I am not too interested but sort of intrigued. Common sense tells me that this machine could potentially be a huge pain in the a**!

 

check it out

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMERGE-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-Fanuc-18i-/130524993529?pt=BI_Mills&hash=item1e63e557f9#ht_730wt_952

 

Question time

Does a Haas come standard with decent accel/decell or is there only contour control in there HSM option?

 

GO LIONS!

 

 

What kinda of service are you going to get with Emerge? That's what kinda happened when Hardinge bought Bridgeport.....now the parts and service sucks.

 

Haas, however, has abundant parts and service. I've heard some of their base models need upgrade for the HSM as well. Don't know which models exactly. I beleive their little mini mill does.....someone else would definatelt know more I've only ran a VF50....

 

 

 

LIONS....the new 5-0, the boys in blue

[YoDoug®]

What kinda of service are you going to get with Emerge? That's what kinda happened when Hardinge bought Bridgeport.....now the parts and service sucks.

 

Haas, however, has abundant parts and service. I've heard some of their base models need upgrade for the HSM as well. Don't know which models exactly. I beleive their little mini mill does.....someone else would definatelt know more I've only ran a VF50....

 

I'm not sure how long ago your service issues were but Hardinge and Bridgeport machines were switched to a new distributor network a year or or two ago. Your distributor for parts and service will be either Gosiger, Morris, or Hartwig. They cover the entire USA except for our Territory (MN, SD, ND).

 

Regarding your earlier post about the tool#-pot# in a OiMC control. You can go into the GData table and see what tool is which pot any time. You just have to know what the numbers mean. When I do new machine install training I show the operators where and how to do this.

[SledGeek]

I'm not sure how long ago your service issues were but Hardinge and Bridgeport machines were switched to a new distributor network a year or or two ago. Your distributor for parts and service will be either Gosiger, Morris, or Hartwig. They cover the entire USA except for our Territory (MN, SD, ND).

 

Regarding your earlier post about the tool#-pot# in a OiMC control. You can go into the GData table and see what tool is which pot any time. You just have to know what the numbers mean. When I do new machine install training I show the operators where and how to do this.

 

 

Thanx for the info on the tools/pot.

 

Mine is one of those 3. w/in the last year, getting the right parts and much communication has been less than good. Then trying to return parts and get the right ones hasn't been stellar either. Their own people were complaining to me about the lack of organization. Before that getting service and training after set up was almost non existant.(pre 2008) just haven't been impressed....mebbe i'm the exception

[ggundrum]

I'm not sure how long ago your service issues were but Hardinge and Bridgeport machines were switched to a new distributor network a year or or two ago. Your distributor for parts and service will be either Gosiger, Morris, or Hartwig. They cover the entire USA except for our Territory (MN, SD, ND).

 

Regarding your earlier post about the tool#-pot# in a OiMC control. You can go into the GData table and see what tool is which pot any time. You just have to know what the numbers mean. When I do new machine install training I show the operators where and how to do this.

 

How do I interpret the GData table to see what tool is in what pot? Is there a way to assign a tool number to an empty pot? I've been looking for a way to do this forever, it would really help us cut down on change over time.

[Newbeeee™]

Microcut make some reasonable machines but with no warranty I'd stay waaaaay away.

Is there a chevalier dealer in your area? We have 3 and love them.

[SledGeek]

How do I interpret the GData table to see what tool is in what pot? Is there a way to assign a tool number to an empty pot? I've been looking for a way to do this forever, it would really help us cut down on change over time.

I'm not sure how long ago your service issues were but Hardinge and Bridgeport machines were switched to a new distributor network a year or or two ago. Your distributor for parts and service will be either Gosiger, Morris, or Hartwig. They cover the entire USA except for our Territory (MN, SD, ND).

 

Regarding your earlier post about the tool#-pot# in a OiMC control. You can go into the GData table and see what tool is which pot any time. You just have to know what the numbers mean. When I do new machine install training I show the operators where and how to do this.

 

Anybody have any input on this subject they can share ? Where can I find what the numbers mean ? I don't have ALL the manuals.....

[YoDoug®]

The Data table will have addresses, D0000, D0001, Etc. The addresses are as follows. You can change the numbers by typing a new number then input key. You may need to be in MDI and PWE enabled. If you already have a number named it will not let you add that number to a different pot. On some machines you can also re-initialize the magazine by calling pot number one into the waiting position and then MDI a M149. This assign tool 1 to pot 1, tool 2 to pot 2, ETC.

 

D0000 = the tool number currently in the spindle.

D0001 = The next tool called in waiting.

D0002 = The pot number in the waiting position.

 

D0010 = Tool number in magazine pot 1

D0011 = Tool number in magazine pot 2

D0012 = Tool number in magazine pot 3

Keep counting up from there.

 

Note: If an address has a number of 99 it means it is unassigned.

[SledGeek]

Thnx Doug !

[mkd]

Question time

Does a Haas come standard with decent accel/decell or is there only contour control in there HSM option?

 

GO LIONS!

accel/decell on Haas machines is on the way-slow side compared to premium japanese stuff (G05 with 31i). it's one of my main gripes; small servo motors and no possibility of an optioned upgrade.

they have a HSM option but i';m not sure; it may only be a software switch.

 

just snuck-up on an interpolated bore in alum for a light press fit bushing.

**Under .0003 TIR on my bore gauge on a 1in hole ,1 inch deep using a garden variety endmill! this is counting taper top to bottom and each quadrant, top and bottom. not bad for 10 years old (the haas not me).

 

measuring down to tenths on the Haas you do see the difference between their advertised accuracy and repeatability. if you have .0066" left to go on the bore you can't just fudge the offset .0066" and expect to nail it within 2 tenths. whereas on the premium japanese stuff you would be very close.