Mitsui Seiki HU100A-5XLL

[gcode]

My employeer has asked me to look at his machine.

It is a very large 5X table/table (trunion style) HMC. It has the travel and weight capacity to build the 5X vanes

we produce but I am concerned about it's ability to do the neccessary 5 axis motion.

 

We build large (up to Ø6 ft) impellers out of mild steels.

I typically rough these with Ø2" button cutters at 100 to 120 ipm with .06 to .08 DOC full rotary 5X toolpaths

 

The nature or our parts and the layout of the machine would put the lion's share of the motion on the

A and Y axis. The specs give an A axis feed rate of 720°/min ... as in 2 rpm.

 

A further concern is previous experience with a similar machine.

I programmed an HU63 at a previous job. It was a very nice machine, deadly accurate and very relieable

but it would throw A axis sevo alarms every time I tried any serious A axis rotatry motion.

It would position and clamp all day long but extended rotary motion killed the A axis every time.

I was running parts that weighed 50 to 200 pounds including fixtures.

 

The vanes I'm running now can weigh up to 4,000 pounds as a rough lathe blank.

 

I have serious reservations about this machine's ability to throw 4000 pounds of steel around

at 120 ipm in an accurate and relieable manner.

Not to mention, it's going to take some SERIOUS fixturing to keep the part on the table

while throwing it around at 120 IPM.

 

Thoughts, opinions and sugestions are welcome.

[gcode]

Here is the link to the machine specs

http://www.mitsuiseiki.com/products/hu100a-5xll.asp

[Joe788]

G, Mitsui is closer to a low volume, custom machine builder, than a cookie cutter machine builder. Unless this is some great in-stock deal, you could probably stipulate in the RFQ that you want faster A axis motion. With what they charge for those beauties, you could probably demand it come with a container load of Japanese Masseuses too.

The iron on this thing is unreal.

 

 

 

If you're looking for faster tilt motion, the Mori NMH1000 has a 20rpm A axis, and somewhere around a 5-6K table load. Much smaller travels than the Mitsui, but 5 feet of x and y should still swing your 6 foot blisks with no problem. Mazak doesn't go that big in a trunnion, but an e1550 or e1850 (See robk's posts) would easily handle a 6 foot diameter blisk, and give you much faster tilting motion (spindle tilts, table turns).

[gcode]

The quote is showing a $120K upcharge for " Increased size servo motors for machine axis" (10K pound table)

and

$84K for 2 special 1900mm round pallets, so it looks like some thought has already been put into this

[RaiderX]

the last mitsui seiki I ran was a very well built machine but cannot speak to your specific machine or app.

 

Makino has a function that measures weight, moment of inertia per work piece location and applies appropriate feeds, accel and decel. Maybe mitsui has something like this? or maybe Makino might be a better fit for what you are doing?

thats a lot of weight in motion so your concerns are very valid.

[crazy^millman]

Tom, I also programmed that same machine and remeber the issues we ran into. Held awsome tolerances, but a 2 IPM that is slower than a snail trying make a day out of 1" of travel. I would have to agree on the E1850 for the job keeping the part on a VTL type table and allow the Head to do all the work like you guys are doing now. Cool thing is you guys could do all the turning and milling on this type of a machine verses the switching back and forth you are doing now with the VTL then to the 5 axis machines. They are simple stupid to program compared to trying to make the other way work and you keep the speeds and feed you are looking for on the Material you are cutting.

 

I love these machines and was impressed with the toelrances we could hold, but at 2 IPM I would think some other options would be a better choice.

 

Great suggestion on getting the RFQ, but the questions comes back to what you guys went through with on the Viper do you want to spend 2 years proving out something or getting a proven machine that has been installed and pumping out parts like the E1850 machines are currnetly doing? Besides you always have me in the wings to train and get your guys up to speed on the Mazak.

 

The 11K LBS part I am programming now woulnd not go on this machine, but I think it could go on the E1850. So other food for thought.

[gcode]

CNC Apps guy sent me some data on a very nice Toshiba that looked perfect for our

needs but the bosses gagged at the price.... but a month later we're looking at this

machine that is nearly the same price and not nearly as suited to our work IMO

[gcode]

The 11K LBS part I am programming now woulnd not go on this machine, but I think it could go on the E1850. So other food for thought

we already ruled out the C75 seriers of endcaps for this machine.. it doesn't have the Z stroke to drill that deep 2" hole or the weight capacity

 

any idea what an E1850 goes for??

[Joe788]

we already ruled out the C75 seriers of endcaps for this machine.. it doesn't have the Z stroke to drill that deep 2" hole or the weight capacity

 

Holy moly. We need to see this part you're talking about.

 

The e1850 definitely doesn't take the place of a full blown VTL of similar size. You're not gonna take a half inch DOC at .03ipr. But the turning is pretty nifty for finishing turned features that need to be located accurately relative to milled features. It's got twice the table load of the Mitsui, so the smaller e1550 is probably closer to the same size as the Mitsui, and a good chunk cheaper than either.

 

any idea what an E1850 goes for??

 

I've been told around a million and a half.

[crazy^millman]

Tom yeah drilling a 2" hole almost 30" is not something most machines can handle. The part we are talking about is small compared to some of the big work they do there.

[robk]

Tom, if you are interested shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you detail specs for both e-1550 and e-1850

[gcode]

Rob.. check your PM's

[robk]

_{I will have to send them individually. They bounced bac from the 1st email address because of the size.}

[gcode]

You're not gonna take a half inch DOC at .03ipr

 

LOL that's a baby cut

 

[mkd]

^^^^ :unworthy: ^^^

I'm not worthy, lol

so jealous....(edit: of this entire thread)

 

funny looking black lathe tool bit

[crazy^millman]

I have personally seen this chip and yes the carbide for this tool is huge.

[mkd]

i once witnessed a guy taking a .750 wide cut @.022 per rev and 500 SFM on a 6ish foot diameter heat treated steel part at CFI (gcode musta known this outfit). the NOISE coming off that machine was incredible.

still have a chip from that operation, too

[gcode]

This is 321 SS Ø128" OD 350SFM and .100 IPR

I don't know what the DOC was but the 15° lead tool was coming down a 45° slope

so the width of the cut was pretty big . The chip measures 1" wide.

When were doing this cut the chips peel off like popcorn. That little pig tail in the photo

represents about 6" of cut

[Joe788]

G, is that a typo? .100ipr?

[gcode]

G, is that a typo? .100ipr?

no it's not a typo the part is Ø128" so 1 revolution is 402" of travel

that gives you .1" of Z in 402 inches of motion.

Its not so crazy when you think of it like that. It's actually a pretty mellow ramp

[gcode]

OK the Mazak crew will be out this morning to give us the nickel tour.

I'm guessing people use a mill/turn post to program this monster

[Joe788]

no it's not a typo the part is Ø128" so 1 revolution is 402" of travel

that gives you .1" of Z in 402 inches of motion.

Its not so crazy when you think of it like that. It's actually a pretty mellow ramp

 

After goes that first full revolution, is it making a chip that's .100 thick?

[gcode]

Yes but I don't think it cares

 

[Joe788]

What do you pay the machinist/operator who runs that thing? I get stressed out about the first setup on a $1,000 piece of material. Can't imagine the stress level for an operator who's handling raw material that's more expensive than his annual salary.

[gcode]

What do you pay the machinist/operator who runs that thing? I get stressed out about the first setup on a $1,000 piece of material. Can't imagine the stress level for an operator who's handling raw material that's more expensive than his annual salary.

 

that must be why I've got no hair