Other cam software

[Shawn Wentzel- Wenteq Inc]

We are looking at adding an additional cam software sometime in the future and was wondering from experience what other brands people would recommend and recommend to stay away from. We want to be in the same price range as Mastercam. It needs to do 3 and 4 axis milling as well as 2 axis lathe with the possibility of later adding a dual spindle live tooling lathe. We have looked at Featurecam and Edgecam the closest, but wanted more user, non salesman perspectives.

[RayD]

I have used a few CAM's over the years, They all make parts... some are easer to learn than others, some are less powerful/limiting than others... ALL have bugs and "issues". you tend to get what you pay for like most things in life.

 

As Tech support I see more problems with Mastercam then most but I don't think I could ever go over to any other cam if I started a shop or went back to work at shop. The "devil you know is better than the devil you don't" analogy comes to mind

 

I would look at the support and training in your area. Is it worth buying a software if you half to fly someone in from across the country for training or support? A big factor for my territory is every resume has "Mastercam experience" on it as the schools teach it as part of the Apprenticeship program, so even though it is not much some exposure is better than nothing.

 

I have a lot of customers who have multiple CAM packages, some use them all, others they sit unused as there is no local training.

 

Also I don't think any other CAM has such a good community for support. Yay emastercam.com

[BOATDUDEGUY]

I once pondered y would a company have more than 1 cam

I came to conclude its if the time came for a new programmer it increases your shot of finding a programmer as apposed to limiting your options and time spent finding someone thats good and thats good with that 1 software. Or is that not correct?

[silky_johnson]

Oh boy....nothing like an unbiased opinion!

The arguement of picking a system due to the number of local users is such BS. A lot of people eat at Mcdonalds.....doesn't mean its the best.

[RayD]

Oh boy....nothing like an unbiased opinion!

The arguement of picking a system due to the number of local users is such BS. A lot of people eat at Mcdonalds.....doesn't mean its the best.

 

I'm sorry if you thought my post was bias I was just expressing how I would feel as a programmer/Shop owner

 

Infact I dropped Mastercam maintinace at my previous employer, and moved to another CAM, as when I needed help In-house was not there to meet my needs, that was a number of years ago and now that there is now local support (Me ) my customers have told me they appreciate having local support (more so someone in the same timezone than the same city)

 

The other CAM I replaced Mastercam with has its pros and cons, just like anything else be it tooling, machine tools, or fast-food restaurant

 

All software company's will have some sort of online help/support, but when you do need onsite support and training there is extra cost involved if you don't have a local reseller.

[Redfire427]

Without a doubt ......... Powermill.

 

Carmen

[Mick]

Tick tick tick. How long until this thread gets moved to Off Topic...

 

Other CAM software? Well, we recently went through some evaluations. I can give you the information we encountered. Feel free to message me so it doesn't clog up the thread

[Chris Rizzo]

Oh boy....nothing like an unbiased opinion!

 

What part did you miss of him saying mastercam has issues? Being an employee of, and pointing out shortcomings speaks volumes of someone's integrity.

 

 

The arguement of picking a system due to the number of local users is such BS

 

My friend's shop had gibbs. Couldn't find a programmer to save his life.. Switched to mastercam and found a plethora of talent. That was a few years ago, now has 3 seats. You can't grow a business like that if you can't find programmers!

 

At my college I teach dozens of people mastercam annually. That's dozens of local programmers to work for dozens of local businesses...Not happening with esprit, gibbs, etc

 

and yes mastercam has issues.

[cadman2112]

and yes mastercam has issues.

 

An d the unvarnished truth is yes it does but so do ALL CAM systems.

 

There isn't a perfect one out there.

 

There are some better at some things and some better at others but they all have their warts.

 

The only question is can you get out of your product, what you need to accomplish the job?

 

Everything else is extraneous.

[Müřlıń®]

I will have to agree with others and say that while I have not used every other CAD system out there, I can say without hesitation they all have their little quirks.

 

What makes one shine over the other is the ability to get the job done and make money in the process.

 

I guess it depends on what type of work you do really.

 

I am sure there are certain instances one system would tailor fit a certain type of work better than the next, but for those who do not knkow exactly what to do or what they want, Mastercam is the best choice. it will do it all.

 

The reason I would choose Mastercam??

 

Support....

 

I had a problem and instantly had 20 people offering to help me within minutes...literally 2 minutes....

 

That is like an on call support group.

 

Where else in the world can you get that type of help?

 

I have never heard of any.

 

 

meh 02

[Mjölnir]

We have customers who use Esprit exclusively to program their multi axis Integrex's. They say they've tried everything else available and nothing comes close. We use PC FAPT plus Okuma One Touch IGF for lathe programing and have more seats of Cimatron than Mastercam for milling.

 

My $.02 FWIW.

[Watcher]

The reason I would choose Mastercam??

 

Support....

 

I had a problem and instantly had 20 people offering to help me within minutes...literally 2 minutes....

 

That is like an on call support group.

 

Where else in the world can you get that type of help?

 

I have never heard of any.

 

 

meh 02

 

True. eMastercam is possibly the best online support resource in the CAM industry. Thanks to Dave Thomson (With the support of In-House Solutions) who had the vision to build it 13 years ago, CNC Software got (For free) a great support resource that many other CAM vendors envy out there. (As long as you don't visit Off-Topic )

 

Some people in this board are just the best CAM professionals I've ever seen...

 

BTW: Because of our crazy machines we moved to TopSolid recently. Their forum is a bloody joke... left to the flies... even a big name like CGTech (VERICUT) has a very poor forum compared to this one...

[Thee Rickster ™]

Without a doubt ......... Powermill.

 

Carmen

 

working with a demo this month, machine shop has a seat, mines next.

[silky_johnson]

I just hate that arguement, and it doesn't speak well for the people that use it as a crutch. If I owned a shop, and I was hiring a programmer, I would want one that wasn't stuck with a single CAM mindset. Same with controls. I worked as an AE for a machine tool company that only supplied Heidenhain controls on their machines. We were always fighting the "Fanuc is all I know" mindset. It's stupid and counterproductive.

 

People need to open their minds, that's all.

[Joe788]

I just hate that arguement, and it doesn't speak well for the people that use it as a crutch. If I owned a shop, and I was hiring a programmer, I would want one that wasn't stuck with a single CAM mindset. Same with controls. I worked as an AE for a machine tool company that only supplied Heidenhain controls on their machines. We were always fighting the "Fanuc is all I know" mindset. It's stupid and counterproductive.

 

People need to open their minds, that's all.

 

If you showed up to work tomorrow, and your boss bought a new CAM software and said, "Here's the new CAM software. While you get up to speed, YOU are going to pay ME for your time it takes to match your previous productivity."

 

You might have a different take on it.

[gcode]

I started my CAM career with Anicam 1.0

I knew nothing about CAM and our Haas dealer gave me a very good deal on a old dual 8" floppy drive computer with the software

A couple of years later he gave me a good deal on a Anicam 2.0 which ran on an IBM XT and later

he gave me a good deal on a seat of TekSoft which I ran for several years.

During all this time I watched the help wanted adds.

I never saw adds for anything but Mastercam and I had no idea what Mastercam was.

When I decided to take classes at the local comminuty college, I had a choice between Gibbs and Mastercam V5

I had never seen a help wanted add for Gibbs, but I saw Mastercam adds every week.... so I took Mastercam,

because that was the skill set employeers were looking for.

[Mjölnir]

I started my CAM career with Anicam 1.0

I knew nothing about CAM and our Haas dealer gave me a very good deal on a old dual 8" floppy drive computer with the software

A couple of years later he gave me a good deal on a Anicam 2.0 which ran on an IBM XT and later

he gave me a good deal on a seat of TekSoft which I ran for several years.

During all this time I watched the help wanted adds.

I never saw adds for anything but Mastercam and I had no idea what Mastercam was.

When I decided to take classes at the local comminuty college, I had a choice between Gibbs and Mastercam.

I had never seen a help wanted add for Gibbs, but I saw Mastercam adds every week.... so I took Mastercam,

because that was the skill set employeers were looking for.

 

I started my CAMing with Acu-Carv in 1989. Started using Mastercam v3.21 in 1992. Used a combination of both through the early 2000's and only Mastercam since.

 

Market share is the main reason I stick with Mastercam despite having the ability to use Cimatron any time I want. Good employers are extremely difficult to find these days and the few decent companies in the area I'd be willing to work for for any length of time all use Mastercam. YMMV.

[silky_johnson]

Guys.....I guess I stand corrected!

 

Apparently the fix to Shawn's issue of needing secondary software to Mastercam is another seat of Mastercam. This makes perfect sense now!!!!

 

There you go Shawn...your all set now. Hire all the programmers you need and be on your way!

 

And what ever you do...never, ever, ever, ever try something new. You may find out that you'll have more power and control, but no one on earth will be able to figure it out.

[Joe788]

 

And what ever you do...never, ever, ever, ever try something new. You may find out that you'll have more power and control, but no one on earth will be able to figure it out.

 

I don't see anybody suggesting that.

[Mick]

I started my CAM career with Anicam 1.0

I knew nothing about CAM and our Haas dealer gave me a very good deal on a old dual 8" floppy drive computer with the software

A couple of years later he gave me a good deal on a Anicam 2.0 which ran on an IBM XT and later

he gave me a good deal on a seat of TekSoft which I ran for several years.

During all this time I watched the help wanted adds.

I never saw adds for anything but Mastercam and I had no idea what Mastercam was.

When I decided to take classes at the local comminuty college, I had a choice between Gibbs and Mastercam V5

I had never seen a help wanted add for Gibbs, but I saw Mastercam adds every week.... so I took Mastercam,

because that was the skill set employeers were looking for.

 

gcode's introduction to Mastercam was similar to mine. Our local college taught it, so I did some courses. I didn't really know what other CAM software was out there, so I was really only exposed to Mastercam. That was around twenty years go (Version 4.11). Around here, the market share is a little more spread out. Most employers look for general CAM skill, with the realisation/expectation that the new employee will adapt.

[Rotary Ninja]

Guys.....I guess I stand corrected!

 

Apparently the fix to Shawn's issue of needing secondary software to Mastercam is another seat of Mastercam. This makes perfect sense now!!!!

 

There you go Shawn...your all set now. Hire all the programmers you need and be on your way!

 

And what ever you do...never, ever, ever, ever try something new. You may find out that you'll have more power and control, but no one on earth will be able to figure it out.

 

This is to be expected. It is after all a Mastercam forum. It would be like a guy going into a Mustang forum asking for advice on which GM car to buy. Only there he would be laughed out of the forum. Here I think Shawn has gotten some really fair views and advice from some very respected people here on the forums. Yes, there is going to be biased opinions. But I don't see any reason to be so sarcastic and upset about it.

[Bob W.]

I had a demo of NX a year ago and the guy giving the demo didn't know what the hell he was doing so they weren't able to convince me that it would be worth switching over. To me it looked far inferior to Mastercam in the HSM toolpaths and from what I have heard the NC machine simulation is a PITA to get working correctly. They showed me a part they had programmed and when I asked how long it had taken to program they told me it was 12 hours. I am pretty sure I could have done it in 90 minutes in Mastercam... It was a real bummer the demo guy didn't know the program very well because I didn't get to see any of the good stuff and he couldn't answer the difficult questions.

 

From what I have heard though, NX and Powermill are both fantastic products. If I ever go a different direction with CAM software I will NOT be switching platforms, I will be adding something other than Mastercam, if I decide there is a compelling reason to do so. Heck, I have already paid for the two seats I have and surely wouldn't throw them away. It would just be another tool available to get the job done.

 

Another thing I did was ask (Siemens) for a 120 day demo and they declined. They would give me a 30 day demo and that was it LOL! I am busy and I need to get parts out the door. Do they think I can really spend the time necessary in 30 days to see if their product is superior to Mastercam, which i have been using for several years? They need to revamp their marketing department because learning a new platform is not a trivial task and there needs to be a pretty good carrot to entice shops/ programmers to do so. What exactly would a 120 day demo cost them? Nothing... What exactly would they stand to gain? A new customer...

 

"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't" +1000!

[MLS]

I use Catia mostly. Still use Mastercam for legacy stuff.

 

I prefer Catia now, but for the Cad side mostly as well as dealing with a largely Catia based aerospace market. The Cam side is comparable in that they both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses.

 

From what I am aware of around here, these two systems are the most common. My choice would be one of them. If I were doing much modelling at all I would buy Catia, if it were Cam only... Mastercam.

[Watcher]

I had a demo of NX a year ago and the guy giving the demo didn't know what the hell he was doing so they weren't able to convince me that it would be worth switching over.

 

... and from what I have heard the NC machine simulation is a PITA to get working correctly.

 

They showed me a part they had programmed and when I asked how long it had taken to program they told me it was 12 hours. I am pretty sure I could have done it in 90 minutes in Mastercam...

 

Another thing I did was ask (Siemens) for a 120 day demo and they declined. ... What exactly would a 120 day demo cost them? Nothing... What exactly would they stand to gain? A new customer...

 

Last August Missler Software got our check for some licenses of TopSolid... I ran a 1 year benchmark looking for a better solution for MTM, a replacement for Pro/NC... Siemens did exactly what Bob says above, in some cases, a bit worse than that. It took us 4 months to get their demo because they took for granted that because we have thousands of licenses worldwide the deal was guaranteed.

 

They refused to grant us licenses for an internal evaluation (Though we didn´t really need to get it from them), even with us saying we would pay for training and support during the evaluation. We wanted to measure the quality of their local technical staff and their response time.

 

I guess is clear that they gave us a very good idea what they were about in the very beginning. I'm really thankful to them because they did not make us waste our time.

 

Missler granted us a 180 days test license... the only demand they put was that we should train our guys to use it first... and that's what we did. In 6 months we were able to know about the software, about the people serving us and how that relationship would be in the years to come.

 

I'm glad we took this direction. Now we're in the right track again...

 

Big companies are stupid. I know because I work in one and it's hard to see people giving a damn to the guy that pay our salaries: the customer.

[Joe788]

I had a demo of NX a year ago and the guy giving the demo didn't know what the hell he was doing so they weren't able to convince me that it would be worth switching over. To me it looked far inferior to Mastercam in the HSM toolpaths and from what I have heard the NC machine simulation is a PITA to get working correctly. They showed me a part they had programmed and when I asked how long it had taken to program they told me it was 12 hours. I am pretty sure I could have done it in 90 minutes in Mastercam... It was a real bummer the demo guy didn't know the program very well because I didn't get to see any of the good stuff and he couldn't answer the difficult questions.

 

From what I have heard though, NX and Powermill are both fantastic products. If I ever go a different direction with CAM software I will NOT be switching platforms, I will be adding something other than Mastercam, if I decide there is a compelling reason to do so. Heck, I have already paid for the two seats I have and surely wouldn't throw them away. It would just be another tool available to get the job done.

 

Another thing I did was ask (Siemens) for a 120 day demo and they declined. They would give me a 30 day demo and that was it LOL! I am busy and I need to get parts out the door. Do they think I can really spend the time necessary in 30 days to see if their product is superior to Mastercam, which i have been using for several years? They need to revamp their marketing department because learning a new platform is not a trivial task and there needs to be a pretty good carrot to entice shops/ programmers to do so. What exactly would a 120 day demo cost them? Nothing... What exactly would they stand to gain? A new customer...

 

"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't" +1000!

 

^This. Featurecam, NX, Powermill, TopSolid, etc, all look pretty awesome. Though wandering through all the different booths at IMTS, I didn't see anything from any of the other software that would compensate for the additional time of even learning the software, let alone paying for it. If we were making lots of impellers, I'd be hot and heavy for Hypermill. If we were making lots of molds, I'd be hot and heavy for Powermill. MTM? Maybe Esprit or Topsolid. But we're not doing that stuff. For the type of parts we do (complex hogouts, thin walls, 3D production stuff, etc) my money and time would be better spent on Vericut.