Okuma Genos

[SledGeek]

Anybody have any experience with Okuma Genos M series vmc's ? Looking for any and all input if ya got it

[Mr. M]

Yes

Which are you looking at?

[SledGeek]

Comparing the GENOS M460 to the MB-46V. It's my understanding that all the mechanicals are made in Taiwan on the Genos. Just wondering if there has been a noticeable difference in quality, rigidity, etc . I like the Genos for the price, but really need higher rpm spindle that comes on the MB.

[YoDoug®]

Here's a few videos of demos that I have recorded. The machine has some serious balls for a 40 taper. We were doing some tests one time to show off the difference between BigPlus and normal tooling. I ran a 3/4 dia Iscar chatterfree endmill, full slot, 1.3 deep through 4140 at 18 ipm. This cut was in Y+ direction also.

 

 

[YoDoug®]

Comparing the GENOS M460 to the MB-46V. It's my understanding that all the mechanicals are made in Taiwan on the Genos. Just wondering if there has been a noticeable difference in quality, rigidity, etc . I like the Genos for the price, but really need higher rpm spindle that comes on the MB.

 

It's all the same components going into both machines. Some of the Genos MFG/Assembly is done in Taiwan to keep costs down but the machine is virtually the same. Also not all options available on an MB are available on a Genos. You can get a 15K spindle in the Genos mill now, in the past they were limited to 12K. If you want 20K you would need to order an MB.

[Joe788]

That Genos looks like a beast.

 

Hey Doug, can the Genos do this the same as the MB?

 

 

And does the Supernurbs option have to program in nurbs? Or is it just regular point to point code?

[Mick]

We have an Okuma MB56VA with the 15k spindle. Great machine. I wish we had got the probing option but it was bought before my time.

 

I've never really got my head around the SuperNurbs. Whever we tried it, we never got very good results, but I feel that is more an issue of not enough training. I need to look at that again. Maybe do some experimentation on the machine.

[YoDoug®]

That Genos looks like a beast.

 

Hey Doug, can the Genos do this the same as the MB?

 

And does the Supernurbs option have to program in nurbs? Or is it just regular point to point code?

 

Yes it can with the Supernurbs option. The program is just a point to point program. Supernurbs has a shape reconstruction feature that corrects the machine motion from the point to point nc code back to the nurb spline that the points were generated from. It is both a hardware and software upgrade.

[mkd]

WOW nice videos. you guys are going to make me an Okuma convert.

like that the spindle moves on x and the rail for the z are so close to the spindle.

that might outperform a Fadal

[SledGeek]

Thanks Doug. Nice vid's. Woo hoo ,She's a crankin! For a 40 taper that was some pretty rigid cutting. Getting a 15,000 spindle makes it more attractive too. I do alot of tool steel and hardmilling for small form die sections and looking for a small highspeed rigid machine. Some of our hardmilling is roughed and then h.t. 55-60 Rc, but looking for something that can do more hardmilling post h.t. Mine current machine is limited. My work envelope is typically within 6"x 6" and alot of small tools 2~6 mm.

That Isky .75 chatter free chip load is incredible....wonder how long those edges last.

 

I would definately like to see a vid on the Big Plus diference

[SledGeek]

Thnx for the input fellas. Just saw your vid too Joe.Those are definately feeds I need to achievs. is it my understanding that the MB has the Supernurbs as standard and the Genos has it as an option ? Still haven't read thru ALL the literature yet

[Brad Lisle]

Thnx for the input fellas. Just saw your vid too Joe.Those are definately feeds I need to achievs. is it my understanding that the MB has the Supernurbs as standard and the Genos has it as an option ? Still haven't read thru ALL the literature yet

 

Sorry guys Super-NURBS is NOT standard on an MB or Genos. It is standard on a MU 5 axis machine due to Tool Center Point Control function requires Super-NURBS. It is an option well worth though, IF, you are doing alot of surfacing and in need of high accuracy surface details. The standard (for MB and Genos) Hi-CUT function works well for most other applications. See below for the hi-CUT and Super-NURB code.

 

Guide for using Super_NURBS

 

 

 

Parameter

Parameter (data word) setting range

Address character used for program command

EXECUTION MODE

CONTROL OFF

CONTROL ON

(G130)

(G131)

 

PROGRAM TOLERANCE

 

0.0 OR MORE

D (D .003)

SET THIS TO WHAT YOU PROGRAMED

 

MACHINING TOLERANCE

 

0.0 OR MORE

E (E .006)

SET THIS TO TWICE THE PROGRAM TOLERANCE

FEEDRATE UPPER LIMIT

1.0 OR MORE

F (F500)

SETS THE MAXIMUM FEED RATE FOR THE TOOL

MACHINING MODE

HIGH QUALITY (0)

STANDARD (1)

HIGH SPEED (2)

J (J1)

CONTROLS THE TOOLPATH ACCURACY AT THE MACHINE TOOL

 

THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE SET UP IN THE MACHINE AND SHOULDN’T NEED TO BE CHANGED. IF CHANGED PLEASE WRITE DOWN THE CURRENT VALUES SO THAT THEY MAY BE RESTORED AT A LATER TIME.

(SEE SUPER-NURBS BOOK FOR MORE INFO.)

 

 

 

UTILIZE RECONST. SHAPE

LOW (0)

MEDIUM (1)

HIGH (2)

FULL (3)

 

I (I2)

MAX BLOCK LENGTH

0.0 OR MORE

L

MIN BLOCK LENGTH

0.0 OR MORE

R

 

PROGRAM FILTER MODE

OFF (0)

MODE 1 ON (1)

MODE 2 ON (2)

MODE 1 & 2 ON (3)

 

K (K3)

 

FILTER VALUE: LENGTH

0.0 OR MORE

P

FILTER VALUE: ANGLE

BETWEEN 0.0 AND 90.0

Q

UPDATE SUPER-NURBS CONTROL PARAMETERS

F4: PARA. UPDATE

(G131)

 

 

 

Guide for using Hi-CUT

 

 

 

Parameter

Parameter (data word) setting range

Address character used for program command

EXECUTION MODE

CONTROL OFF

CONTROL ON

(G130)

(G131)

 

MACHINING TOLERANCE

 

0.0 OR MORE

E (E .006)

SET THIS TO TWICE THE PROGRAM TOLERANCE

FEEDRATE UPPER LIMIT

1.0 OR MORE

F (F500)

SETS THE MAXIMUM FEED RATE FOR THE TOOL

MACHINING MODE

STANDARD (1)

HIGH SPEED (2)

J (J1)

CONTROLS THE TOOLPATH ACCURACY AT THE MACHINE TOOL

 

Program Sample:

 

N61

G90 G17 G80 G40 G0

G30 P2

G116 T61

G15 H4

( .500,1/2 HSS HOG MILL 3FLT 1.25LOC NECKED 1.60LAH - OSG!!! | TOOL - 61 | DIA. OFF. - 61 | LEN. - 61 | TOOL DIA. - .5 )

M8

G131 E.002 F500. J1 <--------------- Hi-CUT/Super-NURBS function ON

G0 G94 G90 X-.55 Y-9.345 B0.

S8500 M3 T166

G56 H61 Z2.

Z.475

G1 Z.01 F60.

X-.525 F35.05

G3 X-.15 Y-8.97 I0. J.375

…

…

…

…

Y-6.7745 I0. J-1.2345

X4.8404 Y-6.7267 I0. J1.2345

G0 Z2.

M5

M09

G130 <-------------- Hi-CUT/Super-NURBS function OFF

G30 P2

M01

 

Please feel free to contact me for more details.

[Brad Lisle]

ok, so I guess the table does not display properly. Sorry.

[SledGeek]

Thanks Brad . I will run some of our programs on both. I do alot of 3d surfacing so I will need the speed and accuracy for vice size parts.

[Mickey_D]

New guy here slowly migrating from Visual Mill to MC X6. I just got a new Okuma Genos M560V in last Tuesday. The machine has a test date of 12-18-2012 and Made in Japan on the data plate and the import paperwork. The only things that I have found on it that are not labeled Japan are the paintbrushes that came in the repair kit (I think they are from Malaysia). We are still waiting on electricians (the machine came in a week before we thought) and the probes and part of the TSC kit so I have not run it yet, but the paint, fit and finish, and general appearance is way above the Taiwan machines that I have in the shop. I ordered it on the last day of the Houstex show and had it in within three weeks. 15K spindle, 32 tools, TSC, Mayfram conveyor, and the Renishaw touch probe and tool setter. I am pumped.

[Mr. M]

Congrats on the new machine Mickey!

[mkd]

looking at the Okuma website, they actually have pricing posted on the Genos line. my question is why anyone would buy the 460 when to 560 is the same price?

[YoDoug®]

looking at the Okuma website, they actually have pricing posted on the Genos line. my question is why anyone would buy the 460 when to 560 is the same price?

 

I'm seeing a $2500 price difference when I look at the website. Even at that difference I would still opt for the bigger machine if I were choosing.

[Greg Williams]

for $2500 I would go for the larger one.

[PGarrett]

We are looking at a Genos right now. Our shop does nothing but 3d finishing for blow molds, would Super nurbs be worth the extra money?

[jeff]

We are looking at a Genos right now. Our shop does nothing but 3d finishing for blow molds, would Super nurbs be worth the extra money?

If you're doing 3D molds, then yes. You'd want the supernurbs option.

[PGarrett]

Jeff, have you tracked machine time and surface quality difference between the standard Hi-cut vs Super nurbs? Just curious.

[crazy^millman]

We are looking at a Genos right now. Our shop does nothing but 3d finishing for blow molds, would Super nurbs be worth the extra money?

 

Would not even think about getting the machine without it for that type of work. I will be very very low on an ROI. Take 5% saving in run time. Take standard 10 hour run time without it. 5% reduction with it will Yield 30 minutes reduction. In one week of time you would gain 2 hours on run time with a 5% improvement with having it. Standard shop rate of $100/hr would mean $400 a week in profit by having the option again only using 5%. One year would mean extra 100 hours of run time, but my 2 for 1 rule is 200 hours of gain. $20k in one year at only a 5% gain should be more than enough to show the people pinching pennies it is worth the investment.

[PGarrett]

.The reason why i'm asking is our Okuma rep said it really isnt worth the extra money. Like you said though if it saves half an hour per mold half, it would most definately be a good purchase. Thanks guys!