Running a horizontal machine

[K2csq7]

Bob, for new jobs, do you bill for NRE?

For 1st run jobs in my past, we would get sometimes up to 5x the part cost in NRE charges. I can remember at least 2 jobs that the part manufacturing would only cost the customer like $2,400..... but the NRE was like $18k.

DO NOT sell yourself short. YOU DO GOOD WORK and should get paid accordingly.

 

Buying chinese? Want to save some frustration? Just throw the $ in the garbage, shoot yourself in the foot, then buy something better.

[Bob W.]

Bob, for new jobs, do you bill for NRE?

 

I do, but probably not enough. We are a small shop and I work very efficiently and I charge according to how long it will take me to get things up and running. I had an employee that was a decent programmer and I generally worked at 2X the productivity on design, setup, and programming. I should probably bill NRE according to my employees productivity.

 

I have the same dilemma with the zero point systems out there. I'd love to have them, but I can't justify spending $20,$30,$40,000 dollars on something that's only going to save a tiny bit of time.

 

I bought a pair of the Schunk clamps for the Koma rotary I just purchased for the PS95. I am in the process of building a tombstone for it and the plan is to build duplicate fixtures for high volume jobs and with the clamps, part change-over will be a few seconds per cycle instead of 90-120 seconds. It should be able to get in the ballpark of the A51 on production efficiency with that setup. Both machines are back to back in the shop so one operator can keep both running very efficiently. Once everything is in place and functioning it will be a badass setup.

 

The clamps are controlled electrically with pneumatic switches which paves the way for a future robot between the machines. That is my main reasoning for wanting Schunk clamps on the A51 as well. It allows for another 8-16 hours per day of capacity with super flexibility since the robot can control those clamps directly and it is a standard interface. Setting up a job for it will be very easy.

[Bob W.]

[Bob W.]

How do I post simple picture?

[Joe788]

I do, but probably not enough. We are a small shop and I work very efficiently and I charge according to how long it will take me to get things up and running. I had an employee that was a decent programmer and I generally worked at 2X the productivity on design, setup, and programming. I should probably bill NRE according to my employees productivity.

 

 

 

I bought a pair of the Schunk clamps for the Koma rotary I just purchased for the PS95. I am in the process of building a tombstone for it and the plan is to build duplicate fixtures for high volume jobs and with the clamps, part change-over will be a few seconds per cycle instead of 90-120 seconds. It should be able to get in the ballpark of the A51 on production efficiency with that setup. Both machines are back to back in the shop so one operator can keep both running very efficiently. Once everything is in place and functioning it will be a badass setup.

 

The clamps are controlled electrically with pneumatic switches which paves the way for a future robot between the machines. That is my main reasoning for wanting Schunk clamps on the A51 as well. It allows for another 8-16 hours per day of capacity with super flexibility since the robot can control those clamps directly and it is a standard interface. Setting up a job for it will be very easy.

 

Yeah a vertical with no pallet changer is definitely a place where a good zero point system is worth the money. Check out this nifty setup:

 

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/vmc-quick-change-pallets-some-ideas-you-guys-expand-upon-276939/

[Thee Rickster ™]

Hey Joe, I like the plastic pail supports under those two pieces.

[Chris Rizzo]

I put that system on all our rotaries and made mini-tombstones. OMG was that a time saver. Literally opening the door and closing it took longer than clamping/unclamping the fixture. Ours were pnumatic and footpedal operated.

 

Instead of longer tombstones packed with parts that required tailstocks, shorties with no tailstock worked better. Sure fewer parts per load and more cycles, but overall better part throughput. However, you being very slim-staffed, I know unattended and long cycles times are beneficial in themselves.

 

At the college we get SO many calls from businesses looking for programmers, but the student supply and capability just isn't there. I'd say 10-15% of a class of college age students has the potential to be good programmers...and that would be after a few years of serious mentoring and experience. Figure the old apprenticship/journeymen model. People who go through multi-year apprenticeship programs come out with good skills, but are they journeymen? Unfortunate that takes another 10 years of experience. Someone with a year of classroom mastercam training knows the basics and can navigate the program, but has literally just scratched the surface of reality.

 

 

On the bright side, I sit a class of high-school kids in front of Mastercam and Solidworks, and wow are they quick. As fast as I can go they can keep up and retain it. THEY are our future, as long as we can get the parents on board to encourage them and not turn their nose up at manufacturing....

 

Sorry for the rant and none of that helps you now, just trying to sympathize and tell ya I'm trying.

[Bob W.]

Newberg's high school has a pretty good machine shop with cnc equipment and Mastercam and I have considered approaching the shop teacher about offering a once-a-week class geared toward Mastercam and CNC machining. Teaching such things such as chip load, high speed machining theory, using the level manager and proper setup of machine groups and tool libraries, etc... I don't know how beneficial it would be or how many students would be interested. The kids I have talked to over there are very enthusiastic and learn at a breakneck pace but they don't have any proper instruction on some of the very basics that make life much easier.

 

I taught one of the students how to properly set up tools on the machine and use the Z value of work offsets and he was blown away that once the tools were set all he had to do was modify the XYZ offsets in G54 to set up another job. I also taught the same kid how to properly use WCS for indexing (they have a 4th axis as well) and he was excited to put it to use. He had been manually jogging the 4th to position and loading new programs for his 4th axis parts. Another thing is they are using completely separate Mastercam files for each operation instead of operation groups. I think an hour or two a week would go a long way...

[Newbeeee™]

... He had been manually jogging the 4th to position and loading new programs for his 4th axis parts. Another thing is they are using completely separate Mastercam files for each operation instead of operation groups. I think an hour or two a week would go a long way...

This reminds me of when I bought a Warner Swasey WSC6 cnc lathe from a college a few years back.

The machine was like new and had only cut a bit of plastic, but was 15 years old. While I was there, I was looking around the machine shop and there was a DMG 5 axis with a full CNC table (not the manual type) and it had a rotary table mounted to it with a vice sat on on top and a job in the vice. This is how the students were being taught!!!

[cincy k]

Bob,

Have you considered teaching an after hours class for those high school students? The kids with the most interest and desire to learn will show up. They're going to be the easiest to teach and keeps everyone including you interested in what you're doing. You may be able to hand pick the best ones to be part of your company in the future.

[Rstewart]

Newberg's high school has a pretty good machine shop with cnc equipment and Mastercam and I have considered approaching the shop teacher about offering a once-a-week class geared toward Mastercam and CNC machining. Teaching such things such as chip load, high speed machining theory, using the level manager and proper setup of machine groups and tool libraries, etc...

 

That'd be really awesome of you bro! I think a lotta younger people would be interested in the field If they could see the big picture and how rewarding it can be. Machining and trade school have always gotten the "Oh, your gonna go that route huh". Couldn't think of another profession I love more than this

 

Didn't make it in the Adult Film Industry.....