Vericut did not show machine crash

[Dakota]

We cut the part running MAZAK VARIAXIS 630-5X-II with mazatrol matrix control.

With G54.4P1 and G43.4H22 active, machine was cutting 5ax swarf toolpath and at null tool, machine

rotated table and control recalculated tool position on X,Y and Z axis so machine

moved on all axis, but in the program there is not linear axis move.

We check the  program in Vericut , but Vericut DID NOT show that recalculation and tool movement.

HUGE CRASH!! $40,000 spindle. In the middle of the program!

 

X-3.1284Y-7.2076Z4.2283A-90.718C266.016

X-3.1671Y-7.1783Z4.2125A-90.779C265.883

X-3.2092Y-7.1476Z4.1941A-90.855C265.745

X-3.2484Y-7.1819Z4.1987

X-3.2864Y-7.2152Z4.2122

X-3.3221Y-7.2464Z4.2343

X-3.3543Y-7.2746Z4.2643

X-3.3821Y-7.2989Z4.3013

X-3.4047Y-7.3187Z4.3441

X-3.4214Y-7.3332Z4.3915

X-3.4315Y-7.3421Z4.442

X-3.435Y-7.3451Z4.4941

G00Z8.1941

G5P0

G64

(TOOLPATH ID197)

G00A-89.565C92.397<<*****************

G00X3.0974Y-7.5283

G61.1

G5P2

Z4.2992

G01X3.0946Y-7.5247Z4.2471F125.

X3.0866Y-7.5138Z4.1966

X3.0734Y-7.4961Z4.1492

X3.0554Y-7.472Z4.1064

X3.0334Y-7.4424Z4.0694

X3.0078Y-7.408Z4.0394

X2.9795Y-7.37Z4.0173

X2.9493Y-7.3295Z4.0038

X2.9182Y-7.2877Z3.9992

X2.8889Y-7.3159Z3.9927A-89.578C92.504F90.

X2.8637Y-7.3427Z3.9865A-89.584C92.626

 

Does anybody have idea how to fix mazatrol matrix control

to show this movement?
Thanks,

[DODGERFAN]

Ouch!!!!!!

[jslaero99]

Sad to hear that, not too familiar with Integrex but I really don't see why you wouldn't catch this one in Vericut since they are axis moves...All that being said Vericut is a wonderful tool but needs to be setup to replicate machine moves otherwise crashes still can happen. Please let us know why when you find out.

 

                  Thanks!

 

                                JS

[#Rekd™]

Did you have the warnings turned on? Believe me this is something you have to turn on.

[Joe788]

I'd be more concerned about why Vericut didn't show this ramming through the table with G43.4 active?  G43.4 will move the XYZ in whatever direction they need to go, to keep the tool tip in the same place relative to the rotary axes, if no XYZ commands are issued with the rotary moves.

 

From A-90.855C265.745

To G00A-89.565C92.397

 

Here's an awesome drawing to explain what I mean. This is for the A axis, since that's easier to illustrate:

 

 

In your case, there was a C axis move commanded. So instead of 8 inches above the table, the tool tried to go 8 inches below it.

[Dakota]

guys, in vericut all options were set on,

warnings,colision detection, travel limits ect.

so fare we did not have any problems with vericut,

this software is really excellent.

crash happened because programmer did not forse tool change

at null tool change when full 5 axis was running.

[Dakota]

Joe788, I know wat happened and why, but

I am looking for solution in vericut control file

for mazatrol matrix to cutch the possibility of

crash that happened.

[Dakota]

just to add, in vericut control, driven point zero and axis orientation should not be

changed and rotated when G43.4 is active, but tool tip point control during rotation

should be recalculated and vericut must show that.

I tried to find macro for that and add to G43.4 spec. in control 

but so far no lack.

[Bob W.]

My only guess would be that maybe the G5P0 or the G64 turned off the G43.4 in Vericut.  Have you run this, or similar programs in the past?  I ran into an issue some time ago where G53 canceled the tool length offset in the machine but Vericut didn't cancel it.  The result was almost a full rapid crash into my tombstone but I caught it at the control.  I fixed the issue in Vericut (simple control mod) so it will catch it going forward.  When we implement G43.4 here we will do a thorough shakedown via testing at the machine to make sure Vericut and the machine control are on the same page.

[Dakota]

in the past we run hundreds programs in this mode

and never had problems with G5P0 and G64,

I check my programs in vericut and so far I did not have

issue like that,

[Mick]

Bob has the right approach in doing a thorough shakedown of the machine model in Vericut via testing on the machine. That is an important test, especially in parts of the programme at null toolchanges, and switching between TCPC and Fixture Offsetting and vice versa.

 

I've had our MU500 Vericut machine/control running since September 2013, and even yesterday I picked up something that needed correcting.

[Dakota]

Bob, you are absolutely right, so far I did not have the problem like that

because at the beginning of using Mazak variaxis (3 years ago) I modified our mastercam Mazak post 

and vericat control to match machine control but, I always use furs tool change

at 5axis milling and null tool change in mastercam,

what happened last week was new young programmer  and his believe that vericut

is 100% accurate.

[Bob W.]

Vericut should be 100% accurate (in a perfect world) but getting it there involves a fair amount of work correcting issues to make the simulation match the machine.  Unfortunately you found one of the issues the hard (and expensive) way but I wouldn't let this go until you can repeat the issue, fix it in Vericut, and confirm that it is no longer an issue.  I am very confident that Vericut matches my machines but if I was aware of an issue where Vericut was off I would make addressing the issue my top priority before moving forward.  Also, anytime I start implementing a new technology I watch everything with an eagle eye to make sure Vericut is doing what it should be doing.  Once running for a few weeks like that I consider it good and move on.

[MIL-TFP-41]

How does vericut go about simulating G54.4? From what I have used in the past....if your part is tilted in an fixture G54.4 can and does correct for this. However, we usually find out the part is tilted via probing, and this varies part to part. Obviously a part that is out of plumb is going to simulate a whole lot different that one that is as it would be in a perfect world...which is where it likely (hopefully) oriented in your CAM system.

 

I know in CAMPlete I have purposely tilted a part to get an idea of what it may look like.....and I can see crashes happen if you don't somehow simulate that.

[crazy^millman]

How does vericut go about simulating G54.4? From what I have used in the past....if your part is tilted in an fixture G54.4 can and does correct for this. However, we usually find out the part is tilted via probing, and this varies part to part. Obviously a part that is out of plumb is going to simulate a whole lot different that one that is as it would be in a perfect world...which is where it likely (hopefully) oriented in your CAM system.

 

I know in CAMPlete I have purposely tilted a part to get an idea of what it may look like.....and I can see crashes happen if you don't somehow simulate that.

 

It is like anything if it is different on the machine that what you have verified then if it crashes that is not anyone's fault but the person who did not go back and make the correct adjustment and check it with the software to see if it would crash or not.

[MIL-TFP-41]

 

 

It is like anything if it is different on the machine that what you have verified then if it crashes that is not anyone's fault but the person who did not go back and make the correct adjustment and check it with the software to see if it would crash or not.

 

I am curious as to how others do this on a production run. I know my sample screenshot is a simple example, tho very valid for this. Say the green lines are where the part should be....and the orange is where the part actually is on the machine. G54.4 can compensate for this....however the machine dynamics are going to be radically different from when it is going to be sitting "true". I have not used vericut, but I can say that in CamPlete I have tilted my part to simulate the movement (this was a while ago...few dead brain cells between then & now). Does Vericut work the same way?

 

 

[crazy^millman]

I am curious as to how others do this on a production run. I know my sample screenshot is a simple example, tho very valid for this. Say the green lines are where the part should be....and the orange is where the part actually is on the machine. G54.4 can compensate for this....however the machine dynamics are going to be radically different from when it is going to be sitting "true". I have not used vericut, but I can say that in CamPlete I have tilted my part to simulate the movement (this was a while ago...few dead brain cells between then & now). Does Vericut work the same way?

 

I cannot speak for Vericut, but ICAM and NCSIMUL both will do that so I have to assume it will with no problem. Just a matter of putting the difference into the software to have ti check for it.

[Dakota]

guys, G54.4P1 is no problem, we are using this function

(Workpiece Setup Error Correction)  in hundreds programs

without any problem, we shift workoffset Z0 point using variable

#5813 in program header

#3200=3
#5223=#3212/100000
 
#5813=-5.4764(VISE Z)<<******************
 
G00G17G20G40G49G80G90
G91G28Z0.
M1

(TOOLPATH ID2)
N1T2T14M06(2" FLY-CUTTER)
G54
M43
M46
G00G90A0.C0.
M44
M47
G54.4P1
X9.4247Y-1.5846S10500M03
G43H2Z15.

 

so, the real problem is G43.4 (tool tip point control) in vericut

that did not show tool reposition when G43.4 is active.

[crazy^millman]

guys, G54.4P1 is no problem, we are using this function

(Workpiece Setup Error Correction)  in hundreds programs

without any problem, we shift workoffset Z0 point using variable

#5813 in program header

#3200=3

#5223=#3212/100000

 

#5813=-5.4764(VISE Z)<<******************

 

G00G17G20G40G49G80G90

G91G28Z0.

M1

(TOOLPATH ID2)

N1T2T14M06(2" FLY-CUTTER)

G54

M43

M46

G00G90A0.C0.

M44

M47

G54.4P1

X9.4247Y-1.5846S10500M03

G43H2Z15.

 

so, the real problem is G43.4 (tool tip point control) in vericut

that did not show tool reposition when G43.4 is active.

 

 

No it did not show the cancel of certain things in the middle of the G43.4 like Bob mentioned earlier in your posted section here:

G00Z8.1941

G5P0

G64

(TOOLPATH ID197)

G00A-89.565C92.397<<*****************

G00X3.0974Y-7.5283

Adjust Vericut to check for that condition in the middle of the G43.4 and life should be good again. Not worth risking as others mentioned here. Bit me once okay, bits me again then it becomes my fault and no one else.

[Dakota]

hi guys

we have vericut fixed by CGTech technical support (excellent support)so now

verification is showing correct tool movement, same as the machine.

as I expected, control def. for G43.4 was modified.

I could show video from verification but I do not know how to attached file

to this post.

[#Rekd™]

Get a photobucket account and upload it there or upload to youtube.

[crazy^millman]

hi guys

we have vericut fixed by CGTech technical support (excellent support)so now

verification is showing correct tool movement, same as the machine.

as I expected, control def. for G43.4 was modified.

I could show video from verification but I do not know how to attached file

to this post.

 

Thank you for putting up the results of what you did. I am sorry it crashed your machine, but glad you were able to get it all sorted out and fixed.